A Movement of Modernization
Today, our beloved Administrator was expecting some important guests, a business party led by Mr.Mann himself, so in case he wanted to tour the facilities, we were asked to trim our toe nails and refrain from using the bathrooms. Not working was fun, but we had to wait standing with our newly washed and ironed uniforms, without creasing them. Finally, there was a hush and the Administrator rushed in to our Barracks alone, walked over to me and mumbled something about making a lot of money from apples, and that I was to build new weapons to be unveiled as part of some kick off event.
Interesting, I just realized that we never had a single actual apple in our compound, and that I only saw them on TV.
Anyway, I headed back to my workshop. I had so many ideas, because I have been doing a lot of thinking lately. I have been doing a lot of thinking lately because I had a lot of time while mechanically wrenching sentries like a robot. Then it occurred to me, heck, I am an engineer, and I solve practical problems. And there, keeping sentries alive was a mundane task which I should be relieved off.
I recently was assigned an engineering intern, he was from Europe or something, but I don’t know what became of him, maybe the Administrator set him up to participate in target practice, you know, as a target. So I had to build my own assistant.
The Nurse
Oh she is a beauty. And a doll. Always swinging the wrench, relentlessly.
She also dispenses health, ammo and metal. You know what, I tried something new and made her completely mechanical – no electronics. That means she is not sappable – eat that you back stabbing lizards! On the downside she can not be fixed in the field, really. Oh and she is a bit slow, you know, she can fix a sentry when a random pyro decides to attack, or when a traitorous snake pulls a sap-by, but she can’t handle a coordinated attack.
This baby can not multitask as well, it either dispenses OR repairs. Some of the folks on my team may have no honor or ethics, but I am an exception. I managed to mechanically build in the prime directive, so the Nurse will switch to healing whenever a human comes nearby. She has healing hands. Robot hands. Cold, metal fingers that deliver healing.
Some of the guys said that this fingery healing leaves them feeling somewhat violated, but I say to them “go suck on a medkit if you don’t like my robot”.
Rejuvenation at the expense of being touched inappropriately. But such is life.*
Here is what I am going to put down on my slide presentation for the Administrator.
- replaces dispenser
- mainly used to babysit sentries
- repairs other buildings, and is also a level 1 or slower dispenser
- can heal/repair ONE person/building at a time
- her prime directive prioritizes healing humans over fixing machines, so it stops repairing when a player is nearby
- can NOT be sapped or repaired
- she looks like the maid robot from Jetsons, and she gropes players as she heals them
————————————-
Well, what else? Let’s revisit the sentry, shall we? Ah, she is one my masterpieces. A symbol of accuracy and versatility. For she pounces targets with fierce precision, whether she is deployed on offense, on defense, on your front lawn or in your glove compartment.
Maybe I should think outside the box for this one – how about something inaccurate, and not versatile?
The Cannon
Because bullets don’t pierce ubercharges. But explosions send them flying up. This baby shoots cannon balls in an arc that are more or less aimed at enemy’s feet.
I built this darling using a special armor I casted by melting scrap demoman targes. Take that, overconfident pyros, soldiers and demomen!
Of course there are some issues with this new material, it takes a lot of resources to build, re arm and repair this cannon. It moves slowly and fires slowly. I remember once testing this thing during one of our drills. An enemy scout came in front of the gun – didn’t notice me or the cannon – knelt down, tied his shoes and went off… BEFORE THE CANNON COULD FIRE. Well, really, I see this more as a defensive compliment to the sentry gun. The cannon sends them flying, the sentry pins them mid air.
Here is a picture of an early prototype I was testing with that intern I mentioned.
A recap of my major points for those of you mentally challenged:
- replaces sentry gun
- shoots cannon balls, in an arc, at enemy feet, with moderate damage. Imagine a sticky bomb launching sentry, with stickies exploding on contact with ground, or flesh.
- the explosive effect can propel enemies flying up, which may help defend against ubercharges
- very slow turn and firing speed, which means is less effective against faster classes and in close range
- has armor made of whatever demoman’s targe is made of; resists explosive and fire damage
- has huge metal cost to build, and is not upgradable
———————————————-
Okay, okay. Now something for the teleporter. Teleporter is an innovation in quantum physics, and you blokeheads do not come near even under-appreciating it. ”Need a teleporter here.” As if it grew on trees. Sigh.
Have you ever fought on Granary? Badlands? Any place where spawn rooms move back and forth as capture points change hands? Building a teleporter becomes futile and I end up running back and forth with a toolbox in hand. I am sure you think that it looks funny. And I will make sure that if you find it funny, you will suffer for it.
But back to quantum physics. An entry and exit point fixed in space is required to move people safely at relatively sublight speeds. But if we were to drop our safety requirements, I could just build something to throw people at sublight speeds towards a location that is within a certain probabilistic distance from an exit “beacon” :
The Sublight Sling
This is a sling. There is an entry pad, just like a teleporter, and it throws you to my vicinity at a sub light speed. Sounds easy, right? No it’s not. I have to carry a highly radioactive beacon under my hat. But it works. Oh the things I have endure for you. My piss has turned indigo since I started working on this, I mean, I did not know bodily fluids could come out in such fancy colors. Except for demoman’s blood. It’s more like alcohol diluted with a bit of blood. Think of orange juice, but more putrid.
A case of raining men, I say, Hallelujah.
Here is what it comes down to, folks:
- replaces teleporter (you don’t say?)
- only an entrance is built, an exit is not required
- “throws” users to my location, wherever I am, useful or not
- works like a level 1 teleporter or slower
- sling is inactive while I am waiting for respawn
I will kindly ask you to knock before using the sling, however.
Can’t I get a moment’s piece, goddammit? And close the door!
*thanks to Kitalpha for the groping robot idea
Stumble it!
corhen responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 4:27 pm #
Love your ideas, hope they get implemented
himmelstoss responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 4:43 pm #
Groping robot.
That is all.
Ant responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 5:06 pm #
What about pyro-only gameplay? ’till april?
Jason Webb responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 5:06 pm #
I’m uhh….pretty sure being groped by a mechanical nurse is not high on my list of to-do’s. The nurse in general feels and sounds a bit funny as far as gameplay (and not just because of the groping >_>). Plus, valve said they’d experimented with a “Repair Node”, similar in design but w/out healing capabilities. Dunno if that’s where your idea came from
I really liked your idea for the cannon though. Can push back ubers and has the extra plating because if the demos hide behind a wall, they can pop out and lob stickies over to it without being shot by the slower cannon. Increased explosives resistance sounds like a good preventative against that.
Hopefully they implement some of your ideas!
Dr. Schadenfreude responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 5:36 pm #
While I can appreciate the creativity of these ideas I’d have to say that all of them share the same fatal flaw: they are less efficient than their pre-existing alternatives.
The Nurse:
Level 1 (Or less efficient) dispenser
Repairs your buildings (So it doesn’t contribute when they are undamaged)
Can’t be sapped
Can’t be repaired
Who exactly is The Nurse intended for?
She isn’t as efficient at supporting your team as a regular dispenser and, presumably, doesn’t repair as efficiently as the Engineer himself. The only real purpose I can think for this is for a Zombie-Engineer to have a second person waiting to tank his Sentry. The Offensive Engineer gains little from this unlock as he needs to construct a second building to take advantage of it. He might as well upgrade his Sentry instead.
The Cannon:
A Sentry which is not upgradable and has a significant metal cost to build (How can it cost more than 200 metal?)
Is essentially designed to inconvenience ubercharges
Slow turning and firing speed
Is resistant to fire and explosions
You say yourself that this Sentry is intended to compliment others but surely that doesn’t excuse it being the Natasha (the old broken version) to the Sentry’s Sascha. This gun has a slower rate-of-fire and puts emphasis on affecting the enemy’s mobility, while the regular Sentry is the real damage-dealer and a no-nonsense killer.
There are two problems with this:
1. The Cannon will be far to vulnerable to operate alone and thus will only ever be seen in Sentry farms
2. If it serves its purpose well then it will increase the resiliency and thereby effectiveness of Sentry farms
Being more resilient to explosives and fire is fine but it sounds highly vulnerable to the Scouts manoeuvrability (and bullets) and the Heavy’s masses of health (and boolets). The Cannon presents an uncomfortable situation that it will either be cast aside, due to inefficiency and inability to defend alone, or embraced as another means of weakening the ubercharge’s status as a means of breaking stalemates.
It’s also of no use to offensive Engineers.
The Sublight Sling
Level 1 Teleporter or less efficient (So ten second recharge or worse)
Can’t be used while the Engineer is dead
Teleports to the Engineer’s position (However that’ll work)
You don’t have to build a Teleporter exit
This is an odd one to say the least.
Teleporters are great. A level three Teleporter can rapidly move a large number of players straight to the front and has a relatively small profile, making it easy to hide. This unlock seemingly can’t be upgraded, although I don’t see why not, and carries both the benefit and curse that it operates to the Engineer’s position. How often is that going to be impractical?
If the Engineer dies then not only is the Teleporter inoperable until he respawns but it’s also ineffective until he gets to the frontline. Admittedly this will probably be quicker than rebuilding, and upgrading, his Teleporter exit but it lacks the stability of a well-hidden position. On that note: the Engineer has to stay in a position that is practical for his team while using this unlock or else he could be sending other players to their doom.
I can see this as both a practical unlock, allowing an offensive Engineer to get teammates to his position but also as a detriment if taken by an Engineer who isn’t constantly on the frontlines. My main fault with it at this stage is that it’s encouraging Engineers to set up slightly behind friendly lines when attacking. If they’re in active combat then they risk their teammates getting killed immediately on spawning or their own death compromising their team’s mobility, while hiding behind their own lines gives them security and the cost of participation in the battle. Wouldn’t you just build a regular teleporter?
Also:
“Have you ever fought on Granary? Badlands? Any place where spawn rooms move back and forth as capture points change hands? Building a teleporter becomes futile and I end up running back and forth with a toolbox in hand. I am sure you think that it looks funny. And I will make sure that if you find it funny, you will suffer for it”
Your Teleporter entrance isn’t mobile, if your spawn advances then you still have to run back to build a new one before heading back to the front to serve as the exit.
In conclusion:
Quite creative ideas but really not all that practical.
The Nurse doesn’t heal as effectively as a Dispenser and doesn’t do anything beyond the alternative’s role when nearby buildings aren’t under attack. Even then there’s the question of just how efficient it should be at repairing incoming damage to prevent tanking Engineers becoming more efficient.
(It’s also very similar to the Repair Node unlock Valve recently mentioned on the blog but with the addition of low-level Dispenser functionality. I’m not insinuating this idea is stolen, especially since yours has more character, but just pointing out that Valve themselves decided a similar idea didn’t really work)
The Cannon is designed to keep ubercharges away from Sentry farms. That doesn’t strike me as very fair for the attackers. It also sounds like it’ll be difficult to build and may well be too fragile against the Sentry’s natural prey. What’s to stop it being cierce-strafed by a Scout or even melee’d by a Targelander Demoman?
It’s a less effective Sentry that has to be defended eve more actively.
The Sublight Sling has potential but unfortunately it also has the potential to be a hideously inefficient device that gives little advantage over the regular Teleporter. While a mobile Teleporter exit is a nice idea, you have to stay in positions that are beneficial to you team and avoid essentially all contact with enemy for it to be reliable. What stops a regular Teleporter from doing that?
If your frontline is mobile, and your spawn static, then there may be a place for this unlock but under any other condition it’s a bit ropey.
Also: What happens if a Spy saps the entrance?
(I recommend you rethink the long spawn or make the entrance upgradeable too)
Helis responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 6:40 pm #
Creative and a fun read. Though I don’t think these are the best side grades for the Engie. Valve has something a bit efficient than the Nurse, the Cannon, or the Bad Company 2-esque teleporter.
Plasto Joe responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 6:44 pm #
Schadenfreude, you should copy that and submit it as a counter-article. No joke.
Dr. Schadenfreude responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 7:18 pm #
I’ve tried doing something a bit like that before and it wasn’t really what they wanted. Analysis I can do, putting together coherent articles that flow well is a different matter.
Why bother submitting it as an article anyway when I can just post a massive response and it gets on the site without a couple of weeks of bureaucracy?
DoomGuy responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 7:50 pm #
The ideas are cool, but eh…
I thought the offensive engi needs to have his stuff NOT tied to metal, like in my ideas: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1172273
In any case, I liked the writing and humour of the article.
Good Job
Soylent Robot responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 9:39 pm #
How is the Nurse not the Auto-Repair doodad just mentioned on the TF2 blog at being rubbish
Soylent Robot responded on 11 Mar 2010 at 9:40 pm #
And what stops the Engie setting up the Sublight Sling and then standing somewhere totally useless?
Hain responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 12:58 am #
Hi. Yes, the Nurse is based off the Repair Node on TF2 website.
And thanks for the intense input, especially Dr.Schadenfreude, that’s an elaborate analysis.
The speed, the rate of fire, the metal cost, these are not the major details, obviously if any of these ideas were to be implemented, such specifics would be worked out.
I have to say I like TF2 a lot more than other games because of the comic quality and the random moments of laughter it gives me. So I have focused more on ideas that would create fun situations, and less on solving engie’s problems from all aspects.
I don’t see the Nurse as useless. It’s a dispenser that can also maintain your sentry. It takes over while you’re getting more metal, going back to build a tele entry, or something. All you’re sacrificing is the upgradeability of your dispenser. Other than that it is not a huge change.
For the cannon, I admit, I am not too pleased about the fact that it is mostly a defensive idea. As I said, speed, metal cost and allowing upgrade are minor parameters. I would say I like that it blows people up, and that it is made of targe material. Because currently an uber demo or an uber soldier and sometimes an uber pyro means your sentry nest is gone. The cannon challenges that notion but not completely negates it.
And for the sling, you can use it until the battle lines are established and then you can switch to the normal teleporter, for example. I think it introduces versatility. As for the comment regarding having to build both entry and exits on maps like granary, you are right, but not having to build an exit should help. There are of course opportunities for griefing, but that is nothing new.
And if a spy saps the entrance, the tele is down. Just like it used to be
The concept of relieving the engie of having to get metal for everything is an interesting concept, too.I especially like the sentry that upgrades with damage dealt. heh.
Kitalpha responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 2:38 am #
Nice work. I can’t wait for the real engi update!! I’ll be sad if players are not teleporting out of my general location. Your gmod pics are great.
-=Pvt. Gomer Pyle=- responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 3:34 am #
I like having options. These are options. Thus… I like.
Sandman responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 3:48 am #
I just want laser beams for my sharks, okay? Is that too much to ask, people? For crying out loud here…
Secret Agent Clank! responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 4:39 am #
Oh hain. The ideas aren’t great but you write so well, which is more than I can say for most people.
Lol at doomguy plugging his ideas. Again.
Also groping robot.
lionaire responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 5:31 am #
ok. couple things. one major problem is that the nurse is fundamentally flawed against spies. as a spy, simply disguise as a freindly and sap the sentry that the nurse is repairing. the nurse is forced to heal the spy because he is “friendly” and ignores the sentry which gets sapped to its doom.
the cannon, as many have said will only find use in a sentry farm due to its weakness against faster enemies.
the tele replacement is good, i really like it, just have the entrance follow the spawn point around. simple fix really.
Hain responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 5:47 am #
Dag nabbit dammit, you’re right. I forgot that spies are humans and not pests.
purpleblah2 responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 9:14 am #
My ideas for the engie update are:
A primary weapon shotgun with a wider spray, but with a larger damage fall-off, and less ammo, that makes spy’s disguises, when hit, faintly glow team colors, but lightly enough to be ignored. It should look like a Remington shotgun, and be pump-action.
A secondary pistol, or some sort of air-pumped launcher. It has less ammo than the regular pistol, and less range, but it launches a bullet, with a flashing red node at the end, or a tracking chip that orders your sentry to shoot at the target, no matter where the chip landed. Even at walls, friendlies (it won’t hurt them), or the sky.
The Shield Generator as another secondary weapon. It replaces either choice of pistol, but it places a protective shield around a teammate, a sort of glowy wave that envelopes them. It uses all the metal you have to generate a shield that takes half that amount of damage, so the highest amount of damage you can shield is 100. It looks like a gray control pad, team color decals, with an antennae sticking out of it.
A protractor as the melee weapon; a sharp, pointy, 90-degree angle weapon. You can’t speed up, upgrade or heal your buildings with it, but you can use it to scout out an area to build. Then retreat and build remotely. This can’t hold a position for long, but can be used for offensive engieing.
Replacement Sentries:
Ball-Sentries: Permanently level 1, but instead of a circular ammo storage, a spherical one, and the ability to make TWO sentries. But the shape makes it harder to sap the sentry, the sappers falling off after a few seconds. These would make it easier to ambush enemies, and easier to recoup the loss of a sentry.
Rocket Turrets: A mortar tube on a square stand that fires only regular rockets, but takes longer to build. At level 2, a tri-tube sprouts out of the tube, increasing the fire rate of the sentry. At level 3, two rocket batteries from the original SG come out of the sides, with the same fire rate.
Dispensers:
A dispenser backpack for teammates, with the bonus of mobility, it dispenses at a slower rate, and it explodes when it is destroyed, hurting the carrier.
Teleporters:
Triporter teleporter that allows 3 teleporters to be built, but they’re only level 1 (or two, iunno). The entrance links to one, and that links to the last one, you can teleport from the first exit by standing on it after being teled. If one exit is destroyed, you go straight to the other entrance.
I can’t write long things without being boring.
Anthan responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 10:14 am #
I once thought of a replacement to the pistol.
It would fire a dart with the same speed/trajectory as a huntsman arrow however it will home in on whatever you were pointing at when you pulled the trigger.
It will take 5 seconds to recharge and fire another.
Your sentry will target the dart.
If it hits an enemy, the sentry will turn instantly and shoot at that enemy even if they’re outside the sentry’s usual range.
You can tag a cloaked spy to make the sentry shoot him.
The upsides of this are:
Target specific enemies (ignore the medic running ahead of his ubered partner to distract the sentry, giving you more chances of survival) (ignore the Scout using Bonk atomic punch to shoot the soldier).
Your Sentry turns to face the enemy instantly (circle-strafing is impossible).
Gives your sentry infinate range against the targeted enemy.
Can work with other Sentries to target every enemy
The downsides of this are:
If you miss (this is rare due to the homing properties), your sentry will target the wall for 5 seconds.
Pyros can reflect the dart; if it hits you, your sentry will fire at you; if it hits another ally the sentry will fire at them but do no damage.
Whaddya think?
Mutated responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 1:38 pm #
Laser pointer would be just fine. No auto-targeting, nothing complicated, if you please.
gelugon2105 responded on 12 Mar 2010 at 2:28 pm #
You may want to place this in the Steam forums instead of here.
jamm responded on 13 Mar 2010 at 3:21 am #
i like the sling, it seems like fun.
the rest, not really…
CC responded on 13 Mar 2010 at 9:15 am #
So long as the sling, when sapped, causes a sapper to appear on the engineer’s head, I’m all for it.
JustAConspiracy responded on 14 Mar 2010 at 7:28 am #
I like the concepts but the cannon seems like it would only be helpful when used in conjunction with at least one other engie. If it was a level 1 gun which had the cannon included I’d be much more inclined to use it.
JustAConspiracy responded on 14 Mar 2010 at 7:29 am #
Oh, and the sling sounds amazing. Do you get a special hat with it?
Hain responded on 15 Mar 2010 at 12:03 pm #
@CC: I think it would be hilarious if another engie would have to hit the sapped engie on the head to fix the sling
@JustAConspiracy: I guess hats are a great way of selling ideas. Next time I will add a special hat for each unlock and make everyone happy.
CC responded on 15 Mar 2010 at 3:23 pm #
@ Hain: Now imagine two engies with sapped slings. A pair of men with sparking electronics on their heads, frantically beating each other over the head with wrenches to try and stop the sapping.
If that doesn’t sum up the spirit of TF2 in one very absurd image, I don’t know what does.
Hain responded on 16 Mar 2010 at 12:48 am #
@CC: Yes, the spirit! The “Acme Anvil” spirit. That’s why laser pointers or homing darts are not the right direction of thinking, in my opinion.
The sling hat could be implemented, for real, if it wouldn’t mess with the whole useless hat system that is so warmly embraced by the community already.
Well what do people know, award them in-game dildos and in an hour you will find a dozen scouts running around with a bulge in the back of their pants.
I wish we could put this shameful hat business behind us and customize characters with hair, beard and mustache options (as illustrated in my previous articles, heheh)
CC responded on 17 Mar 2010 at 4:23 pm #
@Hain: It could always be attached wholesale on his head, not unlike how the Razorback is casually stuck to the Sniper’s back, and just let the antenna clip through his whatever hat or lack thereof he has on. I can’t say the faux-robot image wouldn’t somehow suit him.
I am still just waiting for the inevitable environmental deathtrap which consists of nothing more than a very large bulls-eye/X mark/oddly shaped crater on the ground and a semi-steady supply of anvils set to be released at timely intervals.
On the matter of scouts and adult items… Youtube speaks louder than I ever could, if you’ve seen the video concerning bat model replacements.
blu enginer responded on 19 Mar 2010 at 1:29 am #
spy sappin mah sentry, but any way how are you?
Corporal Atlas responded on 23 Mar 2010 at 1:26 pm #
Hey. These aren’t exactly what I expected to see or want in an update, but I like them a good amount. The problems have been noted. Here are my ideas for a fix:
Nurse-
Problem: Spy Weakness and General Incompetence (:P)
Fix: Give The Nurse limited mobility. Allow it to be upgraded one level and deliver an electric shock to people before grope-healing to spycheck. Let it un-sap buildings and prioritize on whomever is in need of the most healing. It is disabled whenever the Engineer is within its mobility range.
The Cannon-
Problem: Specific Niche’, can barely do anything against whatever isn’t Ubering. Encourages Sentry Nests.
Fix: Follow the specific evolution line of the original Sentry Gun, only have its level 3 form grow The Cannon. Have the cannon addition do nothing more than knock-back, and have the cannon act separately form the gun and have it prioritize Ubers. The Cannon is disabled while other Sentries are within its general vicinity.
Sublight Sling-
Problem: Can’t move with spawns, generally slow.
Fix: Allow it to be upgraded like a normal Teleporter, recharging even faster than a normal Lvl 3, then leave the changing respawn as a means of balancing the device.
Good ideas in general, hope my comment helped.
Hain responded on 24 Mar 2010 at 1:05 am #
@Atlas : nice recap. Thanks.
Allow me to revisit my own initial propositions then :
Nurse – I think making it stop fixing when the owner engineer is around is good enough to overcome the spy issue. I don’t think it’s incompetent, the sentry should not be too tough to destroy if the engie is not around. It just gets rid of the lone soldier or spy destroying your stuff when you’re gone to get metal, build an exit somewhere else, etc.
Cannon – I don’t know why so many people hate it. Think of it as a sticky launcher with huge range, but it’s slow. It works on open spaces and on a group of people. Think of gun batteries on a typical WWII movie beachhead. In a mortar like fashion. It is the open air defense that is explosive resistant. Great for cart defense, final cap defense where enemy attacks in numbers, overwhelming guns.
Sling – A good deal of maps don’t necessarily require you to move entrances but exits always move. So I think to balance it out, it should work slower, hurt the engie when used or something.
Hain responded on 24 Mar 2010 at 1:08 am #
@CC – Oh my, the cannon I’m proposing should fire anvils, which first marks the ground with a huge X, followed by an anvil drop in a few seconds. Anvil cannon! Like the combine mortar in original HL2. Built by Acme instead.
Nik responded on 24 Apr 2010 at 4:24 pm #
Does anyone else feel the need to say: “You got **** on my suit”?