Competitive TF2, Part Three: the Scout
Continuing with the series of competitive TF2 articles written by himmelstoss and myself is an article on the bugger from Boston, the jackass of all trades, the scout.
Now I’m not talking about just any scouts today. No, I’m not even going to mention your run of the mill stun-and-FaN scouts that inhabit 32 man instaspawn servers. Well, I’m not going to mention them outside of this sentence.
Alright. Here we go. You should know by now that there are typically 2 scouts/utilities on a normal 6v6 team. Their main roles are to protect the medic, protect the demoman, flank the enemy and attempt to kill the enemy medic. However, scouts are not limited to these roles by any means. They could certainly rush into the fray of battle, where only experienced soldiers dare to tread, but their speed and ability to deal high damage relatively quickly makes them well suited to hit-and-run attacks on the enemy team, on enemy medics in particular. In addition to hit-and-run attacks, if a scout is good at dodging and can hold his own, they can be quite effective at direct combat.
As far as defending medics, scouts typically only end up doing this if they need healing, or if the pocket and/or roaming soldier is dead. Scouts can be thought of in much the same way that soldiers can, in terms of ‘pocket’ and ‘roaming’ scouts. This is especially true in European leagues, where this an emphasis on keeping the demo alive to deal large amounts of damage. Frequently, one scout will remain with the demoman in order to compensate for the demoman’s weaknesses in direct combat. This leaves the other scout free to flank and observe the enemy – having a scout announcing the enemy medic’s location and status can prove extremely useful.
Now, in a typical 6v6 team, there are two scouts. But since there may not always be a need for them, scouts can serve as utilities, that is, they can switch to another class to better suit the situation. For example, a scout could go pyro (a fairly useful flanking choice on Badlands) or heavy (a very useful tactic, particularly on Turbine). I’ll go into more detail on utilities at a later date.
The scout is very well suited to capturing points. The scout’s fast enough to almost always be first on the point, and the fact that he caps at double speed helps to make him perfectly suited to capturing objectives. Because he will be the first on the point, the scout can establish an early advantage for a team (by clearing the middle point area of enemy scouts). In many matches, the team that captures the middle point early on wins, so scouts should keep this in mind.
When playing a scout, you are not gifted with large amounts of health, so it can be tempting to take health packs. Do not do this, unless an enemy is going for it. Leave health packs to your team’s medic. He can heal you if he gets the pack. You can not heal him.
On the issue of combat, try to avoid firing early. This is especially important in competitive matches. The earlier you fire, the more time the enemy has to react to you. This not only wastes ammo, as the scattergun does much less damage at long range, but when you are playing with highly skilled players, odds are that they will kill you if they have time to react. In summary, if you are undetected, wait until you close in before firing. The scattergun is absurdly strong at close range, so if you can get up close before firing, your efficiency will improve significantly.
Scout is certainly the most controversial class in terms of unlocks. Due to the controversy surrounding the use of these unlocks, many leagues (and even some public servers) have banned the use of them outright. The sandman, in particular, is banned in all serious leagues. The two unlocks that aren’t banned in all leagues, the FaN and Bonk!, see very limited use in actual matches, due to Bonk!’s situational use, and the FaN’s limited damage output and slow reloading speed.
With the recent buff, the FaN is beginning to see wider use in matches, but its slow reloading speed and low clip size hamper its widespread use . As it currently stands, it’s simply more convenient to use the scattergun, due to its higher overall damage output. Assuming you can aim, of course.
With scout, play can be improved with a few small changes. Now the first is going to take some adjusting to, and might need some extra desk space. To make aiming more precise, and to avoid wasting shots, use a lower mousing sensitivity, coupled with a larger mousing area. Personally, I use an 18″x14″ mousemat with my mouse DPI set to 3200, and my sensitivity set to 0.7 in game. This will help make shots more precise and less jittery, and should make your aim smoother.
Now, with soldier, learning jumps is extremely important. A good soldier should know where the map’s perches are, as well as where the map’s clipping is. This can be just as important for scout, who is easily just as mobile as the soldier, if not more so. While jump maps can be useful for soldiers, they are not nearly as useful for scouts. When practicing scout, learning jumps on stock maps is much more useful.
One extremely useful tactic, particularly in 6v6 play, is to partner with the other scout on your team. A well coordinated scout pair can kill combos if they dodge well and concentrate on separating the medic from his partner. This is an area where the FaN can be useful. If one scout bounces the medic away, the other can kill the medic. This then leaves the medic’s partner alone, and by that time, some of his overheal will have worn off.
One of the main roles of a scout is to finish off targets who are low on health, or ‘lit’. The scout shouldn’t be trying to fight fairly. He should be listening to his team and hunting down wounded targets before they can return to their team’s medic. This is another situation where the FaN can be useful. With the knockback, the scout can bounce targets into a good position to be finished off by himself, or his team.
Well, that should just about do it. Hey, take some of these tips to heart and happy scouting.
-clubtheseals
Stumble it!
DPErny responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 10:42 am #
Wow, you’re fast with these articles. Great tips!
UnrealCanine responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 11:25 am #
Comp players use pyros?
Toakal responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 12:21 pm #
@UnrealCanine
Sometimes, in highlanders,or irregular team formations, but I think “lit” is simply a term for weakened enemies, not specifically on fire.
ComissarCain responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 12:26 pm #
I’ve also heard comp teams swapping out for Pyros when on the last point as a last ditch attempt to slow the enemy down, often switching back as soon as they’ve opened up some breathing room.
clubtheseals responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 1:12 pm #
Yeah, lit means that they are in the red as far as health, like 50-1 HP.
gelugon2105 responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 3:31 pm #
Um, won’t using the phrase “lit” cause confusion when trying to communicate to team members about the status of an enemy player or a friendly one that is on fire?
Toxoplasma responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 4:14 pm #
@gelugon2105: Occasionally, but pyros aren’t used very often. Also, if they’re lit on fire, they’re often lit on health.
@Seals: What team are you on?
The Scoot responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 4:43 pm #
Oh dear. Looks like I need a new desk.
Whatever.
Another nice one.
n00bie51 responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 5:13 pm #
Decent job with this story. Stop saying “absurdly strong,” though, you can just use “powerful” as an adjective.
I think it would have been better if you mentioned the importance of evasion; learning to dodge rockets and anticipate grenades is important, although I suppose that has been covered in the past in other articles and it could get too technical.
Corodan responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 5:52 pm #
Dang. And I thought higher sensitivity would help. I guess that’s reserved for Snipers.
Great job.
stultus responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 6:25 pm #
this sounds suspiciously influenced by something
SOMETHING
hmmm
im trying to think of it
????
btw my sensitivity is 25
crabcore responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 9:43 pm #
adds another reason why I suck so much at accuracy with my dpi being like 800 and my sensitivity being 23 on a 10 by 10cm mouse pad. going to have to save for that gaming mouse!
Dicey responded on 10 Aug 2009 at 10:15 pm #
I use 1800 DPI and 5.5 sensitivity in-game. I’m trying to slowly ease my way to lower sensitivity so I use more of my mousing space to make shots more accurate, because I know it works. X3
GoldCrusader responded on 11 Aug 2009 at 1:18 am #
Reading things about competitive TF2 makes me want to try it, but I lack the uber-leet skills and connection to do it. :/
Brian_Black responded on 11 Aug 2009 at 1:18 am #
I’m a bit curious, because I have difficulties with scouts competitively, what are some problem areas for scouts? What should be avoided (tight areas, etc)? Is effective communication between teammates the primary way to shut down skilled scouts?
Signed with a question?
Brian_Black
HelisPoe responded on 11 Aug 2009 at 4:48 am #
There are many reasons why I do not play competitive TF2.
All of them which would make total sense.
I stand at that.
I do love the Scout though. If not for the competitive side, this article is useful for general use in normal gaming and “pubbing”. Who says it’s limited to competitive play?
clubtheseals responded on 11 Aug 2009 at 5:27 am #
@Brian_Black
As a competitive scout, the main things to avoid are ubered enemies, chokepoints (which are extremely rare on 5CP maps), and direct rocket/sticky/grenade hits. Communication certainly aids in taking down skilled scouts, particularly scout pairs.
spuzman responded on 11 Aug 2009 at 10:15 am #
I would also advise never to go directly into a situation where you are outnumbered.
There are many exceptions to this, depending on who you are fighting and how aware they are of you, but charging at an enemy combo thinking “I’ll just do some awesome dodging” has led me to all too many deaths.
If you are outnumbered or ambushed, think of a way you can “fall back,” whether to a teammate for assistance, to some map location where they won’t be able to follow you, or back to your spawn to get health and shelter.
nuclear responded on 11 Aug 2009 at 1:14 pm #
good guide, don’t have much to add
but i do want to comment on a certain phrase
“they can switch to another class to better suit the situation. For example, a scout could go pyro (a fairly useful flanking choice on Badlands) or heavy (a very useful tactic, particularly on Turbine). I’ll go into more detail on utilities at a later date.”
now, it is true that the scouts are usually switched out, but the classes you described, or rather, the context they are used in, isn’t completely correct, at least, not as far as i know, and i have seen alot of strategies, but never one like the one described above. it might be because i am from the European scene, and i have no clue how the american scene operates, but its just something i wanna make clear.
badlands is a very good map for scouts, its very open, there are lots of ways to run around and sneak up to the enemy, it is therefore common to either always use 2 scouts, or a scout and a sniper, not a pyro. in some cases, a pyro might be used on the last point, or even a heavy, for added defenses, but that is about it.
p.s. a FaN can be extremely helpful on this map, for example, to get to the center point extremely fast, or to use it as a defense for CP2, as you can pretty much deny access to soldiers/demos, as you can stop them in mid flight, and use it to blast off scouts that are attacking ya.
on turbine however, i have seen a a few heavies, but most of the time, the team switches a soldier for a heavy, this is because one scout is obligatory, and it is quite common to see a engineer, to defend the intel. however, when you are basically locked down, with the enemy team knocking on the intels door, and the scout unable to do anything effective, it is quite common to use an spy to stab that medic in a lucky try, or stab anyone at all ready, perhaps even try and shank the engi, sap the turret and head off with the intel
hell, this is fun, lets continue.
on granery, you almost always see 2 scouts, except perhaps on the last points, if you have a great sniper, you might switch a scout for sniper
on gravelpit, when on defense, you can go engi on B (on the ramp), and when the sentry gets destroyed switch to heavy untill B gets capped, then you can decide to defend C with the heavy, or even with a pyro (airblast)
freight is a very sniper friendly map, you can use the sniper there wherever you want, i know teams that always go with 1 sniper 1 scout
fastlane almost always goes with the 2 scouts setup
now, i know some teams that have incorporated a heavy into their strategies, but that heavy always goes in place of the soldier, and not the scout.
basically, you almost always switch the scout for a sniper, sometimes for an engi, but generall not for heavy classes.
Tim S. responded on 11 Aug 2009 at 2:57 pm #
A minor correction: The scout is from Boston. And an ardent Red Sox fan at that (”a year to remember” achievement). Boston baseball fans do not like New York at all. He would be abhorred at you suggesting he was from Brooklyn.
Meower responded on 11 Aug 2009 at 7:05 pm #
I still don’t really get it: how is the Sandman so Overpowered? I mean, it’s true that you’ve the power of stopping an enemy uber and to get easy kills, but there’s a huge loss in mobility because of the lack of double jump. And on top of that, you get just one baseball that you either have to retrieve or wait 10 seconds to make it reappear. Probably if it didn’t respawn so much often it could even be considered a fair feature of the Sandman (think of 20 seconds respawn: that’s a lot, isn’t it?).
Rigel responded on 11 Aug 2009 at 10:33 pm #
Uber is everything in matches. Those 10 seconds of invul can kill the whole opposing team. Good medics usually dual, triple, or quad uber people on their team. Now just imagine how F**KING ANNOYING would be to get stopped dead in your tracks, fully ubered while your teammates are being slaughtered by the other teams counter-uber just because one idiot scout hit you with the sandman.
Meower responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 2:28 am #
You have a point there, Rigel. Though, if it didn’t stop ubered people as well, it’d be pretty balanced.
I also think that it doesn’t differ that much from the airblast, though Pyroes have to be much, MUCH more brave than the leetle man.
Brian_Black responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 3:18 am #
@clubtheseals
I think that’s where my frustration comes in with scouts; going against a good scout one-on-one (as a class other than scout) in neutral terrain will almost inevitably go in favor of the scout. It takes a lot of quick thinking and communication to shut down the squirrely bugger.
Zanpa responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 6:25 am #
High sensivity for the win !
Zanpa responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 9:09 am #
Featured on http://tf2.com , congrats !
oldmeme responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 9:16 am #
Got featured on http://www.teamfortress.com
Well done, I’m loving these.
Lawlingbawl responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 10:25 am #
Awesome, they read ubercharged. I’ll echo what’s been said, I can’t wait for the normally non-competitive class guides.
Cam responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 2:05 pm #
Love how people’s inability to dodge a baseball means the weapon is overpowered, not that they are bad =/
landshark responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 5:09 pm #
@Cam
That’s not the point at all. A stun, any stun, in TF2, is terrible. In some games, stuns work (mostly mmos/rpgs, not many fps’s) but it doesn’t work in TF2 at all. No only that, but scouts can flank you and hit you with the ball. Not only THAT, but you can’t dodge all the time. If you are close to the scout, in midair, being juggled, didnt see the ball, got flanked, anything like that and it’s essentially undodge-able. NOT ONLY THAT, but please be quiet because I can garuantee that the people who banned the sandman are 1000x betetr than you. I can bet that every serious player is better than you. So please, don’t critizise unless you have a clue.
Good day.
Sinister Minister responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 6:00 pm #
@landshark: Haha, someone’s bitter. Good job playing the “you aren’t as good as (x) people” card, not that you can actually prove it.
Aftershock responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 8:33 pm #
Heh, prepare to see your comments explode since the blog featuring.
Additionally, no mention of the pistol? It’s pretty often overlooked by pub players, and it’s a very useful weapon as a competetive scout. It shits all over the scattergun for long-range power, and with a pistol script can fire pretty damn fast. It’s also great for taking down fleeing enemies on low health.
Also, as mentioned, pairing with your demoman is incredibly important. On his own, the demoman has limited power in close range combat, nades can only do so much and stickies are useless at that range.
Fantastic articles, i’m really waiting for the non-conventional classes ones.
Raffle responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 9:12 pm #
Psh, posted on the wrong entry. GOOD GOING RAFFLE!
breathe responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 12:07 am #
@CAM
http://onemoreoption.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/5-the-matrix-trinity-dodge-this.jpg
carrot responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 1:26 am #
Congrats on the interesting articles and the mention on the TF2 blog. Keep up the good work!
Raffle responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 2:45 am #
IT HAS BEEN CHANGED!
Very good.
senethro responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 3:40 am #
setting your DPI to 3200 will make you more jittery, not less. If you’re using low sensitivity then you’ll be making larger movements, so jacking up your DPI will mean your mouse will pick up every little error during that large movement. 3200 might be suitable for a finger aimer, but 1200 is fine for low sensivity.
Tails responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 3:59 am #
@landshark
You almost had a decent retort but then your comment degraded into a personal attack. So I know how valuable your opinion is then
solon responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 5:52 am #
@landshark
u mad
Anonymous responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 11:22 am #
I don’t know if it is just me, or if there are others that feel this way but…I am tired of these bullshit guides written by noobs that think they are “pro” because they have played a few CEVO games or IRC games. I know and have played with all 3 of the guys that are writting this shit and, I would never classify them under the “pro” category. I am also tired of all this bullshit being on the tf2 blog because UC is widely known and has a huge community. If you ask me, this guide also looks alot like the gotfrag guide and waar’s guide. I am tired of all these noobs that think they are “pros” trying to write guides for newbs(if you don’t know the difference between noobs and newbs and you are on the internet, kill yourself) so that these newbs can grow up to be mediocre, wanna be “pro” noobs. Once again I don’t know if it is just me or what, but I would love to read a guide that is written by a real pro, someone from teams that are actually known and good, complexity or EG for example. I really don’t understand why everyone who has ever played a PUG thinks that they know enough about competitive tf2 play to write a guide, their are qualifications needed to write guides, if not, you are just throwing stupid shit into poor little newb tf2 competitive players that are never gunna get why they are losing cause they are doing everything that they say in this guide.
To sum everything that I just said up: I don’t wanna read guides from wanna be competitive players with no real experience or credentials, I wanna read guides from players who have been there and done that, players that actually know the competitive scene inside and out. Once again…maybe its just me…whatever…
oldmeme responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 10:44 pm #
@ Anonymous
Strictly speaking, I feel you’re contradicting yourself. You are asking for a Guide from a “Pro” player, yet you say following a Guide to a game where skill is based on accurate mouse movement and predicting enemy’s actions methodically will end up a failure.
What defines a “Pro” from a Mediocre player is simply their temper, their accuracy with a mouse and team spirit. What is written in guides is simply an outline of what each Class is to do, for those who do not know.
To leap from New to Mediocre requires persistence and knowledge of the game, which can be gained from reading guides such as the ones Seals is writing, or the others you mentioned.
To rise from Mediocre to “Pro” can be as simple as improving your mouse accuracy and quick thinking, which you can’t get from a guide.
ELA responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 11:08 pm #
So for you, all sports commentators have to be ex-pros?
You’re a moron.
saladful responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 11:15 pm #
Useful articles, well written, but I have the impression that they rely more on theory than on actual “battle”.
Sure, a scout can’t heal a medic, but in most cases the scout is doing, what his name implies – scouting. Which means that he is not necessarily near the one and only team medic, who again focuses on the soldier or the demoman, which will, in most cases, be where the center of battle is. Therefore, the medic can most times not risk to heal the scout. In that likely scenario, the scout has to take healthpacks, and not few, if he wants to deal a considerable amount of damage, before the little health he has is depleted.
Also, I always wonder, why the soldier is always used as the core of the team and the main damage dealer. I am not boasting that I have much experience with neither the soldier nor TF2, but the soldiers main weapon seems to me to be a bit impractical, due to the slow projectiles (rockets…). Nearly anyone who knows how to operate the A and D key, will be able to dodge most of the damage, if not all.
Also, the model of the roaming soldier is contrary to the statement regarding the scout above. The roaming soldier is saird to be the “mobile” one, which means to me that he will make excessive use of the rocket jump, which on the other hand means that he will inflict a good deal of damage to himself and will need to take a few healthpacks.
The pocket soldier i understand, but – as stated above – I still wonder about the actual damage potential, especially when playing against a small team of 6, where scattering is an easy matter. He is just too vulnerable in direct combat, unless he is a crackshot with the shotgun or manages a lucky hit with the rocketlauncher, but i still know from the little experience I have, that two scouts working efficiently together are easily able to take out the medic and his soldier, even if the scouts are less skilled than the soldier.
Also, when you know that the main target of the enemy scouts will be to take out the medic, the necessity of a class more suited to mid- and short range combat should be obvious, which makes the heavy or the pyro a more suitable medic buddy in my opinion.
And if you insist on keeping two soldiers, you basically render the scouts useless, for they will be forced to make up for the lack of close combat ability of both the soldier/medic duo as well as the demo’s.
Lastly, I think the pyro should be the obvious choice for medic buddy, not only because of his superiority in close quarters, but also because even a mid-skilled player is able to take down an attacking scout, due to the pyro’s both direct and indirect fire damage as well as th airblast ability which helps a great deal when keeping scouts at bay. Also this would free the medic protecting scout to focus on the task of killing the enemy medic or cappin points instead of hanging around slower classes.
Just my two cents
saladful responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 11:19 pm #
Heh, i just realized that the statement in my first paragraph regarding the scout doing scouting contradicts with my conclusion later on, regarding the scout being forced to not scout… try to make sense of it.
oldmeme responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 12:01 am #
@saladful
An interesting notion, but I think you underestimate the Soldier’s capabilities and the speed in which the rockets travel. Soldier have always been good at close quarter combat, it just a risky play because of the ability to damage himself with his main weapon. Teaming up with a Medic makes up for the Soldiers main flaw of his self damage by providing him with a constant stream of recovering health.
The common tip Soldier players pass on is to shoot at the enemies feet, so as to at least get the enemy with splash damage. Over time however, Soldiers have gotten used to the TF2 laws of gravity and use this splash to control the enemies movements by blowing them into the next rocket the Soldier fires, aka. Juggling.
There are plenty of worthy Youtube videos out there to demonstrate Juggling and the Soldier and Medic’s hand-in-hand work.
As for the Pyro, they are rarely used because of the difficulty to sneak up on players during Competitive play and because they lack even a reasonable medium distance range. Because of that range, the Pyro becomes well suited to a Defensive role, but lacks the power to really strike back against almost any class that manages to get out of that range.
saladful responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 1:58 am #
Indeed, but the soldier has to land a direct/indirect hit first to initiate the juggling, which – as stated below – can maybe prove difficult. But, on that note, it could be interesting to see the combination of a soldier and a FaN-Scout working efficiently together, i.e. the scout launches the pyro a bit in the air and the soldier does his rocket-thing (^^).
Still, considering that the build presented in these articles is pretty much the standard (as far as i understand it) another thing speaking in favor of the pyro would be the fact that he is the perfect counter against pretty much the wole enemy team: Scouts can quickly be disposed of using the afterburn damage, which is either lethal or leaves the scout with a small portion of his health left and forces him to retreat. Taking into account that the player being pyro is highly skilled, he should be able to handle the airblast professionally, which renders soldiers partially and demos pretty much completely “useless”, for nearly all their attacks can be reflected. Thus the enemy team is heavily restricted in their damage dealing capacities.
bertu responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 5:20 am #
@Anonymous: I would love to watch Pros writing about the game. Thng is, they don’t, so you take what you get. This guide is very good though, I am looking forward to other instances.
@saladful: Pyro is too slow to get do mid fights and good scouts can shoot it from medium distance with relative ease. Also, the flameblast can’t handle multiple rockets in sucession, because it fires slower than the rocket launcher. Also, in a shotgun x shotgun fight, the soldier has more health.
I remember in the CEVO 3 season finals, I think, where enigma is playing Pyro to defend badlands last point and Reptile shoots the first rocket to his right (in an angle that the reflection won’t hit the combo direction) and imediately shoots a second one directly at the Pyro’s feet. That’s the moment I realized Pyro was almost useless against good players.
I think you are understimating the Soldier ability to use RJ to move around… you should watch some frag videos to realize Soldiers can position themselves close to the enemy, land rockets in close quarters and juggle people around, its really fun.
Anonymous responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 8:08 am #
Opinions opinions, I told you guys more than once in my comment that all the things I said were opinions(”I don’t know if it is just me”), just like you guys thinking this guide is good is an opinion, I never said you guys were wrong for liking it so don’t try to say I am wrong for not liking it.
Peels responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 9:08 am #
I love these guides, keep ‘em coming!
Strife responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 9:57 am #
@ salad
How about trying to actually play even a pug before spouting off stupid comments about competitive play.
Soldier rockets easy to dodge by just using A and D, Pyros the obvious choice for a medic buddy, soldiers useless as close combat?
Jesus man, I’m sure all the competitive players are totally doing it wrong and you just opened peoples eyes to run pyros and heavies as pockets now..
oldmeme responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 10:09 am #
@Anonymous
I’m not saying your wrong for not liking the article, I am saying however that you are wrong for thinking a guide written by a “Pro” or more experienced player than Seals would be much (if any) different in terms of what you could gain from it.
In this case you claim your reason for not liking the article is because Seals’ and similar Guides have not been written by someone who has entered EFT2L, which is bias and in my opinion, wrong.
Talleyrand responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 10:34 am #
So apparently the Sandman is no longer capable of stunning Ubercharged players, as of this next update… do you think this will make competitive TF2 reconsider permitting its use, or will it be enough of a nerf to keep people from using it anyway?
oldmeme responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 11:05 am #
Competitive players have that golden rule of disliking the loss of control in the first place, not just the Uber stun. The sandman now also causes only 25% of damage to be reduced instead of 50%, an even greater incentive not use it is what they will likely cry.
loldongs responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 4:28 pm #
i’m likin’ these articles! keep em comin’!
Brian_Black responded on 15 Aug 2009 at 4:00 am #
@ bertu
Although, in the example you gave, the pyro should not have reflected the first rocket. Part of using the airblast effectively is knowing which projectiles to let go. Pyros aren’t useless against skilled players individually, given the proper environment.
bertu responded on 15 Aug 2009 at 7:47 am #
But then Pyro would just have taken splash damage, possibly going into the air.
Point is, as long as both classes are aware of each others position the Soldier is in huge advatage because he fires faster. Pyro can’t reflect two rockets in a row, and if 1 rocket hits, the Soldier can juggle him.
This means that while the Pyro can be situationaly good and surprise people now and then, having a Pyro start will usually be bad because of that and the fact that it is a slower class to get to mid and it is unable to get to heights instantly (such as Granary crates, Badlands spire, Gravelpit rooftops and C, etc).
Anymorenames responded on 15 Aug 2009 at 11:08 am #
Nice icon, I love Motorhead
n00bie51 responded on 15 Aug 2009 at 4:32 pm #
Since you copy+pasted your comment from the first story, I’ll do the same, Anonymous:
Last time I checked, a “pro” is someone who earns money from being skilled enough to play well. Obviously, none of the authors claim to be so and I also know and have played with them and strongly doubt they are arrogant enough to imply that they are. They’re earnest, not bragging about their CP-savvy.
While I’m in agreement that I would like to see guides from top competitive players and can respect such players’ authority on this matter, these stories on the front page just share basic information for the average pubber. Nobody here is claiming to be some elite competitive expert; these articles were probably just written for the most part to introduce and familiarize ÜberCharged’s large community of casual players to competitive play.
Again, I would also like to read more guides from players with more authority on the subject. Unfortunately, this is ÜberCharged, and until clubtheseals and Himmelstoss are good enough to match Pandemic (not happening for a while (:), you and I will have to look elsewhere. :/
To close, I want to say you’re not wrong for not liking the article and I understand where you’re coming from and actually agree with you regarding competitive guides from players with more authority (although I think clubtheseals and Himmelstoss have done a respectable job so far). What bothered me was how rude your attack was to the contributors and that you presumed their presumptuousness. Feel free to express yourself, give criticism, yeah, but don’t playa-hate.
Secret Agent Clank! responded on 16 Aug 2009 at 1:10 am #
All the real pr0s are too busy playing that game called TF2, anyway. X3
I’d also question how much can be contributed.
1) Just because you can play, doesn’t mean you can write, and vice versa.
2) I’d question the knowledge they can provide apart from “shoot well.” One of the defining characteristics is, after all, good aim; everything else is usually standard for all of em. If you want tactics, that’s legit I suppose, but you can always watch demos, or even vids.
http://www.pldx.com/movie/386/Drunk_Explosions/
(I was gonna link the youtube version, but people might complain about sound; I actually think it’s funnier without it.)
ManTiddies responded on 19 Aug 2009 at 11:12 am #
Scout is 65% positioning, 30% aim, 5% luck, and 0% knowledge gleaned from guides. (i.e. I’m not the dissing the guide-just saying experience renders theories impractical in TF2 scouting.)
NealKenneth responded on 21 Aug 2009 at 1:57 pm #
I love this series so far, but it hasn’t been updated since Valve tipped its hat. Where is the rest of it?
As the Scout says, “I’m DYING here!”
Himmelstoss responded on 23 Aug 2009 at 8:44 am #
New one coming out today. Probably.
mew4ever23 responded on 13 Sep 2009 at 8:03 am #
I want to point out a mistake that I see Scouts making all too often: Jumping while bonk-charged at a sentry in closed quarters. Why is it a mistake? Look what happens to them from start to finish:
1. Scout jumps at sentry.
2. Sentry knockback pins Scout to wall in mid air.
3. Bonk wears off.
4. Scout gets shredded by the Sentry.
TJay "Flukeshot" Dragg responded on 29 Sep 2009 at 12:37 am #
Hahaha… The scout is probably the most fun class to play (For me, anyways.). I do Sniper as a second, but I haven’t played in a long while…
It’s funny, reading the comments, as a well directed comment gets transformed into a flame war.
Mr Grimm responded on 02 Oct 2009 at 3:00 pm #
Small tip I took to heart from my mentor, Sye (cheers if you read this man):
Never, EVER screw around with Soldiers. There’s only one way to kill a soldier (of equal skill) at close range, and that is quickly. Attack only when they are hurt/unloaded, because if you get hit by a single rocket, you’re generaly dead meat. Even at long range, you’ll run out of pistol ammo before he runs out of health, and eventually his team will show up and you will die.
Hope it helps you as much as it did me.
-Mr Grimm
IQpierce responded on 03 Dec 2009 at 7:34 am #
I doubt anyone will read this far down, but it’s worth noting that the Force ‘A Nature can also be used to give just a little more boost to a scout’s jump, like a “rocket jump”. There are a handful of places that a scout can’t quite double-jump to, but can do so if he uses an FaN blast to give him that final blast.
When practicing maps, it may be worthwhile to note these spots and take them into account re: the decision of when to switch between the scattergun and the FaN on different maps or stages.
The Helium Filled Purple Donkey Eater responded on 09 Dec 2009 at 3:23 pm #
Hey, i just want to know about how much ammo should be used on each class:
i.e. for a medic 2 scattergun shells and 2 pistol shells and so on
chipbuster responded on 31 Jan 2010 at 5:58 pm #
generally, just shoot them.
The scout’s reload is actually not quite as huge a problem as the soldiers, so shoot until they’re dead. If they don’t die, but are low, just pistol them. I’m not too aware of any rules for using ammo as scout (such as 1rocket+1shotty for solly), since shotgun blasts don’t splash and can do varying damage