A razor sharp problem
Or, why I think the Razorback sucks
Surprise, surprise, its another article complaining about the Sniper vs Spy update, but what?
- An aspect new updates? No
- How annoying the ambassador is? No, but later
- An obscure change or glitch that only I noticed and want to rant about? No
My problem, is with this
Why? Three words. One. Trick. Pony.
Let’s looks at the others
The Dead Ringer! Fakes your death, fooling your enemy, a great escape mechanism
The Cloak and Dagger! The ultimate ambush watch, another good escape watch, great for infiltrating
The primary unlocks! Well, they’re guns (even the bow, that’s a gun too. Totally), they do what they do best, kill folk, whether with flaming arrows, lightning fast head-shots, long range sniping or otherwise
Jarate! Where do I start? Team support in many many MANY different forms, a handy tool on the offence or defense, whether by yourself or with a team. A real jewel of unlockables.
The Razorback! It can stop one backstab…err…stop one backstab…Oh wait, extra crits! Oh wait, wrong weapon…stuns backstabbing Spies. Can stop one backstab?
Not a great deal, if it did its job well, fair enough, but that is the other problem with the Razorback, it’s too obvious.
Ode to the Failback, or My reasons why I think the Razorback sucks
Spies! How many of you would actually stab a Sniper with the Razorback? None, why? Because you can SEE IT. Its as plain as day! Unlike in the cartoons, an obvious trap will not fool most people. Why waste time when you can whip your gun out, fire off some shots into the sniper’s back (or head) and disappear into the night, or just ignoring them? If they are in a group, you just avoid them altogether, and go stab that plump, juicy looking heavy that isn’t paying any attention. There have even been some cases of glitch exploiting, rendering the Razorback useless.
Other classes? Why do they (enemy snipers) even bother? Whats the Razorback going to do to you, threaten you with electrocution if you were playing another class? Why for you, since you are this close, the sniper is just a 125 hp piñata ripe for beating. Of course they can still defend themselves with kukris and the like, but still, the Sniper isn’t in a good situation there.
However…
Now, I want the be the devil’s advocate on this one as well, The Razorback, is a pretty good tool, in concept. I have had some spies backstab me (I don’t know why, the reason why not to is right there) and it has allowed me to turn around and deliver the ol’ chop chop to said dirty Frenchman. Die another way is a likely candidate for this sudden disregard for safety, and the RAGE from seeing such an appalling item another, but, for most anyway, its just a case of using the revolver. Also although I am saying this is a one trick pony, the sapper doesn’t do much outside sapping an Engineer’s stuff either. And the sandvich in some cases.
Also, the June 25th patch! Although the Razorback is still not very good in my eyes, the expansion of its effects makes it a more viable tool to use. Additionally, why would you want to use Jarate or the SMG if you’re going for the classic Sniper technique of WCS Long range sniping? A little extra protection helps, if you don’t plan on letting anyone else get through, or moving very much. Oh, and melee matches, its always nice to have an anti-backstab measure in a melee fight, since a lot of people roll spy for an easy job of killing folk in said matches. Just watch out for every other class
And of course, some people have argued that the effect of the Razorback is less physical, although it doesn’t do its job well of preventing you from dying from spy caused gunshot wounds, it does prevent you from being backstabbed. Consider a small, but poisonous animal, one that’s low in the food chain. Its flashy, its colourful, but that’s not a giant flashing ‘EAT ME’ sign its holding by being so obvious, that is a sign telling any would be predators to ‘Piss off, ya mongrels, or I’ll rot ya guts out‘ in a stereotypical Australian accent. OK maybe not, but you get my point right? They won’t backstab you, because they can see what happens if they try.
My final verdict?
PROS
- Both an actual (stuns on backstab), and mental (No one will want to backstab you) guard against backstabbing spies
- Its a new unlockable after all, new stuff is always nice
- A direct counter to one class (Thanks Pyrit)
- Has received a buff in the June 25th patch
CONS
- It isn’t a very good counter to said one class
- Makes you an easy target for every other class who can get close enough, especially Pyros. After all, preventing backstabs won’t save you from the Scout that is right behind you
- Good luck without your ONLY reliable close to medium range weapon. Cause no matter how crap you think it is, the SMG would have saved your ass from a lot of tight spaces, more then this thing will
- Even Jarate will save you more times then this will (Curing spontaneous combustion, revealing spies, and doing that extra little bit of damage to the soldier trying to murder you always helps)
- Compared to the other unlockables the Sniper has, this isn’t very useful, to you, or your team
Well its obvious innit? Yes, the Razorback does have some pros, but, preventing a backstab, in return for; being without a handy or good combat weapon and being bait for every other class, including the one your supposed to be a counter for with this thing equipped. Is it REALLY worth it?
Final verdict? Not too useful. Don’t let me stop you using it, but I would advise using Jarate or the SMG instead. It’s great in concept, but poor in execution.
Now where’s my jar of piss? I’m going spy hunting
Next time! A diplomatic situation, or Why I really don’t like the Ambassador
Stumble it!
Slug Advisor responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 8:11 am #
I actually find that the Razorback can hinder a spy pretty badly. You can’t go on a backstab train when the person at the back of the group can’t be backstabbed. And has a one hit kill weapon charged.
Coded One responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 8:45 am #
Are you kidding? You know that if you stab a razorback, you can’t switch weapons right?
And no movement penalty…
It’s good for camping (AKA weighted companion) snipers, and it does its job well. Most of my really good sniper friends love it.
Comissar Cain responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 8:57 am #
What every spy needs to learn in dealing with Razorback Spies
1. De-cloak.
2. Shoot them with the Revolver, twice. The amount of time between twin revolver shots and a backstab is negilible and they still end up dead as a doornail. As a plus, they can’t even Kukiri you (unless you’re dense as lead, since you’ve got the same movement speed), leaving have to point blank you with a Sniper/Huntsmen (and, if they have superhuman reflexes and are able to register your damage, turn, line up a shot, and fire, will have one chance to kill you). I could have sworn someone mathed it out, and the time to kill with 2 revolver shots wasn’t all that different from a single backstab.
As for the ‘backstab train’ problem, I think the solution’s fairly obvious–just ignore him (or shoot him last).
Ozku responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 9:26 am #
Tbh I think razorback was ment for more casual pub players, I rarely find it useful if people know what they’re doing.
Mas responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 9:26 am #
Just my opinion
I’m not really one for the camping in one place style of gameplay, I prefer being on direct defense, shooting heavies as they come through doors, Jarate bombing groups on enemies and such, but I havn’t tried the buffed razorback yet, so I MIGHT change my mind
Confetti responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 9:37 am #
@ Slug Advisor
Wait wait, the Razorback gives you one-hit kills? Why are we complaining about it again?
@ Coded One
They won’t stab a Razorbacker in the first place, unless they’re really dumb.
Mas responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 9:49 am #
@ Confetti
It doesn’t kill instantly
It just prevents them from attacking for 3 or 4 seconds
Alex responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 9:54 am #
Does it or does it not help prolong the sniper’s life? It’s a good alternative, particularly now they have removed the speed reduction. It’s a real deterrent to spies, probably the main protagonist of the sniper. And just like the other unlocks, such as natascha and the axtinguisher, it’s not to everyones taste.
Sheepshifter responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 9:59 am #
The Razorback would be so much better if it was smaller and concealable. In my version, it’s Buckler-size, and if you look closely you can see a slight bulge where the sniper is wearing it under his vest. It protects against backstabs, period.
Confetti responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 10:19 am #
@Mas
Ohh, okay. I read his post wrong.
HelisPoe responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 10:55 am #
Don’t you dare bash the Ambassador.
It’s received, in my opinion as a 130+ hour Spy, a much needed debuff (It really was a bit ridiculous) to removing consecutive headshots.
Most classes we fight against (Snipers, Engies, Medics) only require one headshot from the Ambassador to really kill them. (105 damage + A single shot)
Daggity responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 11:08 am #
Ambassador: It’ll take two hits after the headshot to bring down a Medic with it. It’s highly situation now that you can’t spam headshots with it. I prefer it in some cases, although I usually use the Revolver.
Revolver: This takes three consecutive hits to bring down a Sniper. Although, it shoots faster than the Ambassador anyways. I prefer it for better Snipers, who are able to hear you coming, or ones that move a lot. However, Ambassador is excellent for taking a headshot and hiding, but Revolver will win in direct combat (Unless you’re a biological aimbot).
Razorback: This is a much more viable option now, however I still think it’s pretty lame to be a one and only direct counter to their hard counter class. Spy may have his sapper, but that is the only thing that makes him the Engie’s hard counter. It prevents you from taking risks (Multiple Snipers with Razorbacks who decent noscope aim can take you down, as well as their teammates they’re undoubtably hiding behind). ‘Course, it’s useless if the enemy team does not have a good Spy anyways.
Onkel Fritz responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 12:32 pm #
it’s a cute little item but not as useful as it’d like to be
Skink responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 12:35 pm #
Good artice, but it needs more PICTURES.
FlyingHat responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 12:41 pm #
I’ve survived plenty of back/face stabs with my trusty razorback.
The red dinger is just plain annoying as hell, and gives an overpowering advantage to a good spy.
FlyingHat responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 12:43 pm #
Ah, a second thought.
I do think you can greatly improve the post by making your ideas more streamlined and snipping out a bunch of useless bits here and there.
Not much else from then on.
Secret Agent Clank! responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 1:10 pm #
I’m still waiting on my Spy’s Fireproof Suit and my Engineer’s explosive and sapper removing Minesweeper.
Mexican Apple Thief responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 1:45 pm #
Actually it’s slightly more useful now considering they can no longer spam ambassador headshots. Still not a great weapon though.
Josh responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 2:24 pm #
Very helpful. Maybe if you bitch enough Valve will tailor the game specifically to how you like to play it.
Mechaflash responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 3:05 pm #
Excellent article. I agree with every point, ESPECIALLY with how underestimated the SMG really is.
@Josh
It’s just his opinion. After all, that’s kinda the point of most of the rants on this site.
Ota responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 4:30 pm #
Man, i have to think people who hate the razorback have no experience using it whatsoever, and judge it only on paper. Take this from someone who have virtualy 100 more hours as spy than a sniper: i will almost never go after a razorbacked sniper, the payoff is just to little. It takes two shots minimum to finish him, even with the ambassador, and if you manage to take him down there’s bound to be someone around who’s probably going to kill YOU. Whatever if it protects against just one backstab, or the spy can see the razorback, that is actually the fucking point, you’re not invunerable to backstabs, you’re just scaring them off. You’re a little weaker on the mid to short range game yes, but it’s not like the jarate deals any sort of damage, and the smg was just made to finish people of. I would say i see 80% of snipers using the razorback on the servers i play, and it pisses the shit out of me, hahahahaha.
Also don’t really get all of the ambassador hate. I used it for a couple a weeks, but after getting all related achievements and coupled with its newest nerf, i just went back to the revolver, and i find to be significantly better with it.
randombaddie responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 6:23 pm #
There’s one thing I disagree with — if you can track decent/well, noscopes are quite effective especially when you’ve got teammates around. 50 instant damage while running behind your heavy? Noice
kaptin scuzgob responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 9:03 pm #
The only instance I would backstab a Sniper using the Razorback would be to get that achievement. Don’t remember the name, but you have to break his Razorback and then still kill him.
Mas responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 9:45 pm #
Thanks for the criticism
I’ll work on those points next time
@Josh
I just don’t like it. Yes I agree that it is quite handy for the WCS. But I don’t really like playing the sniper like that, so I don’t see much use for it. And as I said, I havn’t tried it yet since the new buff
As for the ambassador, its not that I don’t like it because its overpowered, I don’t like it because no bugger uses the old revolver anymore (I know some people use it, but I bet you most people don’t)I.E just like the blutsaugher.
Teatime responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 11:35 pm #
Yes, the Razorback is mainly a deterrent. It doesn’t protect the sniper from a spy, but it forces the spy increase his risk when attacking with the gun (which after all gives the sniper a chance, though perhaps only a small one, and teammates nearby will increase the sniper’s chances).
To serve this function it *has to be visible*.
Also, concealing it would be a have a bad effect since it would (kind of) turn backstabbing into a lottery.
What bothers me a bit is that the razorback is indeed tailored towards the spy.
It might be an interesting idea to enhance the Razorback’s effect that the board also decreases the damage of other (directed) weapons from behind and that the electrocution would also apply to other melee weapons hitting the razorback (though perhaps with less effect than on the spy).
And finally: The good thing with unlockables is, you don’t have to use them
Tim responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 1:13 am #
It shouldn’t just block a backstab. It should block one hit of anything, (from the back) or at least use it as a shield. I’d rather go with the Smg than the Razorback, and that’s a problem because the Smg is near useless.
Waffle responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 2:21 am #
I suggest you use this skin.
http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/66858
APARTHEID responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 4:48 am #
In combination with the previous article concerning … umm, well, whatever it was, I just remember the Razorback being quite appropriate for the situation.
What was it, again?
Mr. Shiny Object responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 8:37 am #
The razorback once saved one of my enemies lives. I had my knife out and I saw the RB, but when I pressed “Q” it switched to sapper accidentally then I switched back to knife then Ambassador but by then I was dead.
Zigzter responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 10:04 am #
I like the Razorback.
When I’m sniping myself, and I see an enemy Sniper with the Razorback, I know I won’t have to put much effort into out-sniping him, if any effort at all.
dekichan responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 1:54 pm #
You missed a (minor) pro. It slows down the Consolation achievement.
Question, does the razorback block facestabs? That’s actually a serious question, I haven’t been able to play too much recently. As little snipers have to worry about facestabs compared to other classes, it might be a funny bit of trivia to actually have a way to block facestabs.
gelugon2105 responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 1:57 pm #
I would prefer that such complaints get left for the Steam forums.
In any case, yes, the Razorback does seem somewhat disadvantageous, especially its release version.
I don’t play the Sniper often, so I would not know much about this weapon. However, I noticed that the TF2 wikia no longer shows the speed reduction for the Razorback. Has this been removed? I checked the update logs from the Sniper/Spy update and there was no documentation for this, yet TF2 wikia would certainly have mentioned the speed reduction if there is one.
Scrub responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 2:55 pm #
@dekichan Facestabs occur basically when the “back” hit box lags, and it ends up being where the face is. That’s how I’ve had it explained. So it should protect against facestabs if that is the case.
Don’t like RB. Only to protect from one stab? That’s retarded. I’m use the sniper rifle when I play sniper, and Jarate and I play as a mid range to close combat sniper. None of this sitting in the back looking through your scope stuff. How nubbish!
APARTHEID responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 4:07 pm #
Oh, that’s right!
The Razorback is a-ok for those times when you feel like getting on the cart!
( Like -I- would ever do that, though! )
Zorgulon responded on 30 Jun 2009 at 9:20 am #
*facepalm*
If the game were able to differentiate a facestab from a backstab, the problem wouldn’t exist.
AE responded on 30 Jun 2009 at 11:18 pm #
Three words:
CRY. SOME. MORE.
DoomGuy responded on 01 Jul 2009 at 12:08 am #
@AE
Where’s the crying? He isn’t raging about it, he’s just saying that compared to the other unlocks the RazorBack isn’t really worth it.
Oh wait, you’re just being a prick. Never mind.
Wang Tang responded on 01 Jul 2009 at 8:00 am #
“The Dead Ringer! Fakes your death, fooling your enemy, a great escape mechanism”
May I laugh at that?
To experienced enemies, the dead ringer is a nice switch from other watches because:
a) Most people get instantly killed using it, only to be
b) killed 10 sec later by the whole enemy team who is aware there is a spy running around, after the obvious “dead ringer” death animation.
This may work against more casual players. But against those, razorback works as well.
Zorgulon responded on 01 Jul 2009 at 8:32 am #
@ Wang Tang
I think that’s indicative of the Spies you’re facing rather than the Dead Ringer as a whole.
Competent Spies know only to activate it when they’re in genuine danger of dying, to make the death convincing. Combine that with the fact that if you disguise as a team mate, the fake corpse will remain disguised, so you needn’t alert them to the fact you are a Spy until the admittedly loud decloak sound occurs. By which time you should have found a decent place to uncloak.
And even if you fail in that regard, something that absorbs 90% of damage done and protects you against headshots, backstabs, and even being hit by a train is not something to be sniffed it. It’s essentially a second chance at a life, if used correctly.
Add to that the recent buff that lets you charge it up with ammo packs, and the DR is a fine element in any Spy’s arsenal.
But, by all means, laugh at it.
gelugon2105 responded on 01 Jul 2009 at 6:43 pm #
There’s still a lot of fine-tweaking that has to be done actually.
The Razorback’s speed reduction has been removed. Now the only major gripe is that the Sniper has to revisit the supply cabinet to rearm his Razorback, which is not feasible in many maps. It would be handy to have it recharge automatically, like the Spy’s cloak.
That one-time only prevention of backstabbing is nothing not to be scoffed at. Imagine if the Razorback can permanently and repeatedly block backstabs. Then there will be no one using the Jarate and SMG anymore and the Spies on either team are likely to go for the other classes instead. In other words, this would encourage Weighted Companion Sniper habits.
Also remember that a Razorback-equipped Sniper who is near a friendly Sentry is a deterrent to all but the most foolhardy Spies.
DoomGuy responded on 01 Jul 2009 at 9:12 pm #
@Gelugon2105
The one-time prevention of backstabs IS to be scoffed at. Why? Well, you won’t really get backstabbed if you’re the slightest bit attentive. Rather than just looking through your scope all the time, once you haven’t seen anyone for 2 seconds once fully charged, quickly look around, and spycheck anyone heading up. It’s just there for lazy snipers who just stay scoped in all the time.
Also, at the same range as a backstab, you can kill in under a second with a ambassador. One headshot, then a body shot. The razorback is made useless doing this, because it can stop this near-instantaneous kill.
Plus the fact that Jarate is far more useful in many more ways in many more situations makes Razorback a bad choice. With Jarate, you can put out flames, KILL A ENTIRE ADVANCE FORCE (35% damage? That’s a giant nerf right there.) or make them retreat, (Once again, why fight with a disadvantage? May as well run away.) put out your own flames, mark out a spy, let you win melee duels against other characters, the list goes on.
Anonymous...Guy responded on 20 Jul 2009 at 5:33 am #
The Razorback to me is NOT at all what you describe it as. You’re slowed, so the spy can catch up to you. He backstabs you. No sound, warning or ANYTHING. The spy waits for 2 seconds and a dead sniper is…born. So, basically, there is NO WAY the razorback protects. No warning a spy has backstabbed it off, not a sound, nothing. You don’t have SMG or Jarate, and you’re slower. Horrible unlock.
God of Pie responded on 20 Jul 2009 at 3:51 pm #
Does the knife’s tauntkill kill a Razorbacking sniper?
Noitteimart responded on 09 Oct 2009 at 4:11 pm #
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XAOS responded on 17 Jan 2010 at 7:04 am #
??… ????? ??????!