If you die to a W+M1 pyro…
…then you are in one of two groups:
A) Those people who play for ages, yet get beat by these idiots. Those are the people who complain the most about pyro to make excuses for how bad they are.
B) Those people who are new and are stilling getting the hang of the game. It is reasonable at this point to have a little trouble with the W+M1 pyros.
But, what ARE W+M1 pyros?
W+M1 Pyros are those who play Pyro that simply kamikaze you invariably, holding down W (Forward) and M1 (Left-click). No strafing, no trying to outwit the other player, no thought given to the fact that YOU ARE CHARGING INTO A BLOODY GIANT WITH A SPINNING MINI-GUN THAT SHREDS ANYTHING THAT IS CLOSE TO IT TO PIECES. They are half-wits, people that shouldn’t get any kills. Sadly, many people can’t beat these, amazingly, and succumb to the flames. There are plenty of people that, despite the fact that they have played for months, have lost to them. More often than not, they cry out for the pyro to be weakened, to be “nerfed”. Those are the people in Group A.
Those that have just started playing are often killed by them as well, but that is perfectly reasonable. They often just need a little bit of help, some tips in completely neutralize the W+M1 pyro threat. This guide shall do that for you.
Anyway, onto the actual guide itself…
We’re going to look at all the classes and show techniques and tactics for those classes that’ll help you against W+M1 pyros (And, in fact, damn near everyone else, so feel free to apply these tips ANYWHERE.):
Scout vs. W+M1 pyro
Scouts should try and stay in large outdoor areas (Preferably near medkits ie. Gravel Pit), “patrolling” the area if you will, which puts the pyro at a severe disadvantage because of their short range and your distance. In indoor areas, this short range doesn’t matter as much, as speed is no use if you have no area to move in.
To beat Pyros, you should stay JUST outside the range of the flamethrower and pound the pyro with your scattergun. The pyro will easily go down in just 2 or 3 rounds. Also, try circling around the Pyro, running back and forth. When at medium distance, use your pistol. Force-A-Nature is ideal against pyros, because it knocks them back giving you far more breathing room.
“Jeez, you still trying to catch up with me, mumbling man?!”
Effectiveness: 7 (7.5 If using Force-A-Nature) out of 10
(Very) Easy fight.
Soldier vs. W+M1 pyro
Soldiers WILL win here. They are the counter to pyros, as they have something which will stop any pyro. All you need to do is aim at their feet. Once you do that, they fly straight up into the air losing all momentum. The pyro may as well be stunned for 2 seconds during this because they can’t do anything. Now, you can have a choice. You can fire another rocket at the same place when he lands (Very easy to predict) or go for an awesome air-shot (Not hard at all, because as I said, the pyro flys slowly into the air, straight up. You only have to lead your shots a little.) Also, you can rocketjump away from the pyro if you don’t think you’ll win.
“This is my world. I DON’T LIKE MUTES IN MY WORLD.”
Effectiveness: 8.5 out 10
Soldier will most likely win here.
Pyro vs. W+M1 Pyro
When you face a W+M1 Pyro, you should run back, strafing left and right and maybe circling around the other pyro. Once you start flaming each other, it’ll usually come down to whoever keeps the opponent in their crosshairs the most. Due to the W+M1 Pyro’s predictable pattern, you’ll most likely win. Also, you can easily airblast them away (If you’re using the normal flamethrower) and use the shotgun, and they’ll go down with 2 shots. Don’t underestimate the shotgun.
“Thhrh chn rnly bh rnh flhmhthrrwhr-wuhhldng mhnuhhc hrrund hhrh, nn uht’th thurh hth hhll nrt grng tr bh yru!”
Effectiveness: 8 out of 10
Easy fight.
Demoman vs. W+M1 Pyro
Your normal Grenade Launcher will kill a Pyro in two shots. Just lead your shots and it’ll be easy. Also, you should always place a couple of stickies somewhere as a fall-back point, then move forward with Grenade launcher into the battle zone. Once people start attacking you, run back to your stickies with them chasing you (Usually a W+M1 Pyro) and blow the stickies up. If you are REALLY desperate, go for your bottle of scrumpy.
“Looks like you’re in for some of my homemade explosives, ‘ey laddie?”
Effectiveness: 8 out of 10.
Very easy fight.
Heavy vs. W+M1 Pyro
Put simply, your Mini gun will rip anything near it to shreds. There is no problem here, you merely have to watch your back in case you face a good pyro who tries to ambush you. Natashcha is even better, as it’s slowdown effect will completely neuter the pyro’s speed. Remember though, keep a eye on your medic – He’s only got needles as a gun, so if he gets ambushed, you need to be quick to save him.
“Why does LEETLE man think he can charge man with MINIGUN?!”
Effectiveness: 10 out of 10.
No contest.
Engineer vs. W+M1 pyro
Pyro will most likely win here, but if you use your shotgun well enough and run away, you COULD win. Also, using pistol when they are far away works well. A good tip is to entice the W+M1 pyro to chase after you, right into the sight of your sentry, especially if you are dying. Wrench CAN work if you’re desperate, but don’t count on it. If caught by yourself, the pyro will most likely win. However, the engineer shouldn’t be in that situation because he should be behind a sentry gun that’ll rip Pyros to pieces, and dispenser to heal any afterburn damage.
“Let me show you my heavy caliber, tripod-mounted, little ‘ol number designed by me…”
Effectiveness: 5 out of 10
By yourself, it’ll be hard, but that situation shouldn’t come up anyway.
Medic vs. W+M1 pyro
First of all, you shouldn’t have a problem with pyros if your healing target is decent. If you were ambushed, then you weren’t attacked by a W+M1 pyro, you were attacked by a clever Pyro, so always look behind you for them. Anyway, you can often run away with a blutsauger, using your health-leeching needles to counterreact the afterburn. However, if you think you can outrun them, turn around and run, since backpedalling is slower than moving forward. *Thanks to Dr. Milkard*
“Look, my friend here was willing to try out my new treatment: EXTREME ACUPUNCTURE!”
Effectiveness: 6.5 out of 10
Absolutely no problems if you have a good teammate. If ambushed, use the tactics described above this.
Sniper vs W+M1 pyro
If you’re using the normal sniper rifle, you’re most likely dead if a pyro comes up to you. With the Huntsman however, you have a fighting chance. With only 2 seconds to charge the arrow to full power, you’ll be able to get a good chance at headshotting them. If you’re have Jarate, use it, you’ll need that extra damage and it’ll give you a bit of slack if you don’t headshot. If you’re REALLY desperate, you can Jarate them, and charge in with kukri. Really, if you’re out by your lonesome and caught by a pyro, you’re most likely dead, so stay in sight of your teammates. By the way, you can throw jarate at your feet to put your flames, and do remember to put out anyone on your team with it (Although they’ll most likely hate you for covering them in piss.)
“Oh, bloody hell, how did I get ambushed by him?!”
4(6 if using Huntsman) out of 10
Hard fight, although it’s easier with Huntsman.
Spy vs. W+M1 pyro
Use your revolver and run off. Surprisingly effective, with only 3 shots to kill meaning you should be able to win. With the Ambassador you can take them down in two headshots, which is brilliant. Remember that both guns have a punch, especially at close range. If all else fails, try circling behind them and backstabbing. Also, don’t forget about the Dead Ringer – It’s fantastic because when you use it it puts out flames, and even if you get set on fire while cloaked with it, you won’t take afterburn damage, which is extremely useful.
It’s DEFINITELY a challenge, but you’ll most likely win if you got some distance and there is no other enemies.
“Burn in hell, you mumbling abomination!”
4 (5 if using Ambassador; add 1 if you have Dead Ringer.) out of 10
(Trust me, sometimes I’ll substitute the revolver for a knife. Actually works.)
The Mechanics of afterburn
One of the things that annoy people the most is the afterburn. Once you get touched by flames, you’ll be set on fire and take 50-60 damage during a period of 10 seconds. However, don’t worry, since there are many things stopping afterburn:
- Medics: Obvious choice, once they latch on to you with your medigun, your health will go up instantly and after a second it will extinguish the flames.
- Dispenser: Same as medic, however, it’s slightly less effective.
- Medkits: Each kind of medkit (Small medkit gives you 15% health, medium medkit gives you 50% health and large medkit gives you 100% health) will extinguish your flames immediately.
- Airblast: If a friendly pyro airblasts you, it’ll extinguish flames.
- Jarate: While the enemy wouldn’t even piss on you to stop you burning, your teammates are more than happy to throw jars of urine at you to extinguish those flames!
- Water: Do I need to explain this?
General tips
- Remember that the afterburn from the flames does 50-60 damage over a period of 10 seconds, so if you’re taking too much damage, run for a medkit. They will extinguish the flames IMMEDIATELY and will heal most of the damage.
- Just run away and fire, no matter what your class is. You’ll win most of the time JUST by doing this.
- While most W+M1 pyros don’t have the presence of mind to use airblast, the better pyros can use a airblast to reflect your projectiles, so watch out for that.
- Remember, n water, the pyro becomes useless.
How can I play as a good pyro?
I’m not going to get too far into this, since there is many videos out there to show you how to do this (Which I’ll link to, don’t worry.) I’ll give you a quick rundown of the things you should do:
- Always try to attack from the back or side. If the enemy(ies) know that you’re there, you’ll go down quickly.
- Remember that you don’t have kill all of the enemies in one shot. Just ambushing from the side, spraying a quick burst of flame, and running off is extraordinarily effective, and once the enemies start running off for health, you can come in from a different angle and finish them off. Remember, afterburn is your friend.
-If the enemy is at range, use your shotgun. It is very useful against the enemies that running for health after you flamed them.
-Just recently, the Flare gun got a buff, with it doing mini-crits if you hit someone who is already on fire, which makes it far better.
Anyway, here’s a good general gameplay video guide that shows you how to play as pyro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGIISxhYRYE
Also, I can’t stress enough how useful the airblast is. Here’s a guide to using it:
http://www.ubercharged.net/?s=magnetro
Conclusions
I hope you enjoyed this guide and will now lay waste to those mute, mysterious fools. You’ll get more score, you’ll last much longer and will get a lot more kills.
That is all.
DoomGuy on June 26th 2009 in game classes, how to, pyro, tactics, team fortress 2
Stumble it!
Cowjuicer responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 10:47 am #
I love the pictures accompanying this article. And the content, too. But mostly the pictures. Did you make them?
APARTHEID responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 11:16 am #
The trick to beating your average W+M1 Pyro with a Medic is relatively easy if you’re in either one of the following:
1) A very large area with cover to round around, or
2) A hallway — preferably with the Pyro at its end and you somewhere between the middle and the other end.
Simply put, use the slow speed and superb saturation of your needles to your advantage; spin the Pyro in circles and simply have him run into the bloody lasso you’re baiting him into. Lead heavily with your shots, and don’t be afraid to overshoot the flames; nine times out of ten, you’ll completely run past the flames, or hit a tiny puff that’ll can be easily negated with a few needles. ( If you’re -really- daring, you can attempt to sever an arm with your Saw as you’re running past. It’s hit-or-miss, so be sure you’re going to connect if you do so! )
However, if you’re in a hallway and you see one coming, beat feet forward first — gain some distance on the mumbler, and then simply let loose as he comes charging down the hallway. Most Pyros shrug off the tiny tads of damage that either the Blutsauger or the Syringe Gun do at a distance, but as they gain, they’ll realize the error of their ways as the damage ramps up, adds up, and knocks ‘em down!
For the most part, as a Medic, you’ll want to stay clear of Pyros … especially those meddlesome Backburner Pyros, but if you can keep your cool and stand your ground, it’s a battle that few M+W1 mouthbreathers can win. ( Try it on your smarter friends too! It works surprisingly well! )
Coded One responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 11:30 am #
These are all good in theory, but the problem is that you never fight a Pyro in these perfect conditions. You’re usually low on health, in confined quarters, or other unfavorable conditions.
Besides, these are all very basic strategy’s that anybody should already be using in the first place.
n00bie51 responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 11:52 am #
I agree with Coded One. For example, when you mention Scout versus Pyro, you state, “To beat Pyros, you should stay JUST outside the range of the flamethrower and pound the pyro with your scattergun. The pyro will easily go down in just 2 or 3 rounds.” That’s harder than you make it out to be when you consider latency and the fact that you actually need to *ahem* land those shots accurately (which takes skill).
I think the many of the individuals who complain about W+M1 Pyros are just complaining about WSD+M1 Pyros in general who rush.
Group A and Group B are too rigid and absolute. I can totally understand why people are reasonably frustrated when some noob rushes them without any skill and gets rewarded for it.
It’s like the chainsaw in Gears of War. Although it’s impractical to be rushing people with it all the time and trying to win the game with it, nonetheless, it’s still irritating and cheap when it succeeds.
Bunni responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 11:55 am #
What I really need is a guide to escaping pyros who by chance set me on fire while I’m cloaked because it’s in their nature to drop what they’re doing and go after the spy. I’m pretty much dead by the time I’m uncloaked enough to start shooting.
Anonymous responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 12:13 pm #
Oh boy. Another “Pyro is fine. L2P. I’m just better then you” post. Why is this all that is posted and UC now? Do people have a penchant to validate their “skill” when playing the easiest to play class?
The obvious solution to all the whines about Pyro is to nerf Spy.
Again.
Lets not forget to buff Sniper too.
Mexican Apple Thief responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 12:26 pm #
“There can only be one flamethrower wielding maniac around here, and it sure as Hell ain’t gonna’ be you!”
Did I get it right?
Cupcake, Darn It! responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 12:41 pm #
Some of these pictures are a tad gruesome. In bad taste, I’d say.
I’ll chance to speak for the Group A people here;
I would say that by average, we are a moderate group. A decent bunch. But the reason why we resent W+M1 pyros so much is because we catch them too close, around corners, just accidentally running into them. But of course, this is “clever pyro-ing”, us being stupid, or us falling victim to the design of the map.
I think the truth is that Group A people don’t complain about seeing a W+M1 pyro in the open ever, because yes, they are easy to take down.
The reason we die from W+M1 pyros is because we are crossing their turf; close quarters, corners, low ceilings. But it’s difficult to avoid that sometimes, because the maps are designed so that all, or most classes are effective in some form.
Essentially, you are giving us advice we already know. Which seems mostly just to be if you see the pyro in the open a distance away from you, then yes, engage, and take the pyro out. Easy.
The advice you should be giving us is what happens if we have to go into pyro-advantageous territory? Or what happens if they were the first to engage, meaning that the pyro was close enough to flame, we are now on fire, and are trying to run away?
Cupcake, Darn It! responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 12:43 pm #
Perhaps we’re just screwed then. Now that I think about it. Any thoughts?
Coded One responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 1:02 pm #
People need to remember, that us Ubercharge contributors have the same knowledge as many of you, we’re not necessarily smarter or better at the game then anyone.
We, therefore, have a tendency to post either A) Videos or B) stuff you already know.
TF2 has been out for nearly 2 years now. It’s VERY hard to find new material, even with the new updates.
tl;dr Cut us some slack on the material, however, (and maybe I’m the only one that feels this way) criticism is ALWAYS welcome.
CharlesMan responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 1:14 pm #
I play Heavy and Soldier a lot so W+M1 Pyros are basically free points for me…But I never see any these days
kamikazewave responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 1:17 pm #
Eh, anyone that plays soldier should have no problems with w+m1 pyros. Demomen who actually use their pipe bombs should be fine as well.
Only people who may complain are snipers and spys or close quarters. In those situations, change your damn class, or avoid those close quarters. Each class has a powerful part and a weak part.
APARTHEID responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 1:22 pm #
“The advice you should be giving us is what happens if we have to go into pyro-advantageous territory? Or what happens if they were the first to engage, meaning that the pyro was close enough to flame, we are now on fire, and are trying to run away?”
In reference to this, an addendum:
If in any case, on open ground — or relatively open ground — it’s beneficial to use your natural speed to your advantage and try to run by the Pyro in question. Use your natural regeneration to your advantage! You can survive afterburn in a way no other class can; use that time to your advantage. If you can find a buddy and you know you’ll survive, do your job, and let your patient know that you need a pick-me-up. If you’re alone, beeline ( with caution, mind you — a burning Medic is a tantalizing target for any class! ) to the nearest health source or hot spring. If you know you’re not going to make it, try to land a few needles to give yourself some time.
If you’re in an enclosed area, a tight hallway, or anywhere else that screams “FRESH BRATWURST, COMING RIGHT UP”, get as far behind your buddy as your Medigun allows, or attempt to blast through; usually, when someone on a friendly team sees a friendly, albeit dim-witted Pyro rushing down a hallway, they’ll try to pincer you in. Prioritize your target, and have your buddy ( or Blutsauger ) mow them down.
If you’re anywhere else in-between, do the generic thing and stick to your buddy. ( Then again, this advice works most of the time, so stick to it! )
Wilson responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 2:17 pm #
Judging by your comments, I am guessing you fall into the first group…
FlyingHat responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 2:29 pm #
When playing scout you just need to master two things when dealing against any pyro:
1. Weapon Haggling
2. Shooting them in the back.
noodleboy347 responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 2:42 pm #
You got most of this wrong. Firstly, you said that the Spy was effective against the Pyro. Seriously? And Heavy does not have 10 effectiveness, since the Pyro is mostly likely to kill a Heavy if they’re alone (170dps, +50dmg afterburn).
Also, you said Pyros become useless in the water. This is absolutely false. Pyros can do full damage to enemies in water, they just can’t cause an afterburn, which is no problem, because, well, 170dps.
n00bie51 responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 2:57 pm #
You’re wrong, noodleboy; Pyros cannot do any damage to enemies with flames underwater if they’re submerged.
randombaddie responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 3:01 pm #
@noodle: You neglect that, at that range, the heavy deals something like 500 dps, or about 90 per shotgun hit. Catch the pyro outside of his range while revved, and he’ll go down in roughly a second.
I think the advice for demomen is kinda misleading/bad — if the pyro is just closing into the range where his fire can hit you, or is outside that, okay; but if he’s already burning you and you’re just trying to get out alive, you’re probably better off using stickies and praying you live to det or going for the bottle, since a direct pipe will cut 50+ HP out from under you too.
And hitting him with pipes is not an easy task in any case; if your opponent has played the game for more than an hour they’ve probably learned that against certain classes it’s better to sidestep once in a while than beeline forward.
Comissar Cain responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 4:40 pm #
Oh my god. The trick to beating a Pyro is to STAY OUT OF RANGE OF HIS FLAMETHROWER!?
Astonishing insight, there, chap.
Alexander responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 5:40 pm #
Only things: The huntsman only takes one second to charge, and you shouldn’t assume all medics use the blutsauger. Other than that, though, this is a very good guide
gelugon2105 responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 5:58 pm #
Nice pictures.
If you die to a W+M1 pyro, you’re just being careless. Simple as that.
Alex responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 6:10 pm #
This is kinda rubbish asa a guide cos everyone, no matter how new,can kill them. There are even good w+m1 pyros around, like that vid posted here a while back.
i am badgar responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 6:50 pm #
@Alex: Not everyone can, so its better to post a guide on it so people who don’t CAN kill w+m1s easily.
Anyway, great guide with awesome pictures =)
Gee-Man responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 7:05 pm #
As usual, we lead to this inevitable argument I’ve stated before, Pyros can’t win (the usefulness argument). They’re either the n00b class that’s overpowered and doesn’t deserve to be in the game or the weak class that can barely stand toe to toe with even a Blutsauger Medic.
Ah well, here are my thoughts to the whole W+M1 Pyro argument:
A) Every class (in theory) has a weapon that can fend off a Pyro in some form or another if said Pyro is simply rushing you.
B) Try not to get irrationally angry when a Pyro manages to kill you with W+M1 in a tight area of the map. Just like a Sniper dominates open ground by simply pressing M2+M1, Pyros were built to destroy in close quarters. After all, you can’t win every battle, and sometimes luck will play in more than anything else. Way too many times as a frontline class (ie. Soldier, Demo, etc.) have I just barely managed to survive an encounter with 3 enemies and escaped with just 30 health only to run into a fresh Pyro right around the corner.
DoomGuy responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 7:54 pm #
Okay, big comment round up here:
@Cowjucier and everyone who liked the pictures:
Thanks! I did make them myself. To make them, I used Garry’s Mod, which let’s you pose all the characters and stuff. It’s very good and fun to play with.
@Coded One and other people saying the same thing
Well, in that case, it doesn’t matter then, you’re not going to live. You’d need superb reactions and all that to get out of it, so there isn’t any point in getting annoyed about something you can’t really help.
@Anonymous above Mexican Apple Thief:
Easiest to play class? That’s Soldier. The pyro is a mid-health, mid-speed and short-ranged class, and since he moves in such a predictable fashion, he should be easy meat. But, as I said, many people don’t seem to be able to kill them out in the open, and if they’re around corners, then first of all, try to be far more cautious when going around, and second of all, that isn’t W+M1, that’s ambushing. I jump around corners all the time as heavy and I’ll kill entire groups of people thanks to the high DPS of the Heavy.
@Mexican Apple Thief:
You’re absolutely right.
@Noodleboy:
When did I say Spy was effective? He isn’t, the odds are stacked against them, but recently he has gained a couple of tools to help him, which I was saying.
@Commissar Cain:
Oh, well done. Now perhaps you could read and see that I said in the SCOUT section, not anywhere else: “Stay just OUTSIDE of the flamethrower range”. Why just outside? Because the scattergun won’t do much damage from far, will it, so you need to get as close as possible. But, yeah, on you go being sarcastic without checking the ACTUAL guide itself.
Well, thanks for the posts, everyone.
APARTHEID responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 8:00 pm #
I see that my name is far too offensive to merit any sort of gratitude from the staff. :C
Morphine responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 8:49 pm #
I would just like to add, that an underwater pyro can still flame you (if you are near the surface). If the pyro is jumping on the water as he flames, the flames will burn.
This needs to be fixed big-time.
NotPigeon responded on 26 Jun 2009 at 9:58 pm #
There are a couple of things I’d like to point out real quick:
1. It only takes 3 revolver shots to drop a Pyro at point-blank, where they can drop you within a second. At maximum flamethrower range or further, it’ll take more like 4 or 5 depending on random damage.
2. The DR’s only useful if you’ve got plenty of health left and/or are well outside his range and are close enough to escape to your team within 6 seconds. You can collect ammo to extend cloak time, but after 6 seconds you’re back to taking full damage.
Xriloku responded on 27 Jun 2009 at 2:23 am #
While it’s most certainly a glitch (that’s been around since TF2 came out), it makes the pyro just a little bit more useful in the water.
If the enemy is close, take out your flamethrower underwater, hold space, and one you’ve broken the surface, rain fire upon those heathens who dare drag you to such an impure place! It’ll only do scorch damage, as the water automatically puts out the fire, but whatever works.
Same applies with the flaregun, but your head MUST be out of the water! Meaning your HUD isn’t submerged.
Great for those pyros that use the Flamethrower, Flaregun, Axetinguisher setup like me. Not better than the axe and shotty, but better than trying to whack him with your Axetinguisher.
n00bie51 responded on 27 Jun 2009 at 2:33 am #
DoomGuy, I would be hard pressed to agree that the Soldier is the easiest class to play as; maybe one of the most REWARDING classes to play as, but not necessarily the easiest, and it still requires plenty of skill to master.
DoomGuy responded on 27 Jun 2009 at 2:47 am #
@noobie:
He’s the easiest to START off with. He can just fire in the general direction of the enemy and still be useful no matter what. However, all you need in the enemy team are soldiers or heavies that aren’t completely shit, and W+M1 pyros shouldn’t be a problem.
Mr. Shiny Object responded on 27 Jun 2009 at 4:25 am #
This article is a big health because I never knew what class to be if I was frequently visited by a pyro.
magnetro responded on 27 Jun 2009 at 4:32 am #
Thanks for including my video in the article, but maybe you can post the direct link instead?
http://www.ubercharged.net/2009/04/25/wm2-hot-air/
–
My take on this whole “advice we already know” thing is, he’s talking about beating a W+M1 <– W + M 1 PYRO, the advice doesn’t need to be complex and elaborate, it’s W+M1! I think the whole article was meant to mock people who complain about the Pyro, because the advice is really simple.
Anyway, thanks for including my video again.
DoomGuy responded on 27 Jun 2009 at 6:33 am #
@magnetro
No problem, you’re welcome. And yes, the people in group A (Read: Steam Forums) are getting mocked with this article. They act as if W+M1 pyros are these unstoppable beasts, yet all it takes is a very basic grasp of tactics and thinking to beat them. Of course, for the people who are really new, I’ll hope this’ll help them too. Not enough people know of the Soldier’s knockback ability, for example.
Comissar Cain responded on 27 Jun 2009 at 2:56 pm #
@ Doomguy
Oh, you’re right. Thank you for that gripping insight. I would have never come to the realization that the Scattergun or Force of Nature is a close range weapon (being you know, a shotgun), and in order to best combat the Pyro, I would either have to sneak up/flank him, or stay just outside of his flamethrower range to down him quickly, and should use the Scout’s high rate of speed and manueverability to stay within it. Perhaps I should also use the Scout’s incredibly high rate of speed to constantly flank and harass a Heavy to bring him down too?
I might be being glib, but basically what I’m saying is: You’re taking a few hundred words to state the obvious. Your article is fairly snide, but it’s bringing little insight to the table. If you wanted to bring something, you could have at least provided specifics, perhaps something demonstrating the exact range of the Flamethrower’s stream? It’s out there to find as well, but at least then you’re providing something concrete. But all you do is re-iterate what everyone who’s played TF2 for the better part of an hour will figure out.
For the record, I also agree with Noobie, Soldier is not the ‘easiest’ class, simply because getting the most out of his abilities requires juggling, airshots, leading the target, etc, etc. ‘Easier’. As they take some degree of practice and, in the right hands, can produce VERY different results, I think it’s safe to tuck that little idiom away.
I would furthermore question the need to have a ‘Let’s beat a newbie Pyro’ guides at all, because killing like I said, even the casual TF2 players have figured these things up. Creating a guide to kill the thereotical braindead player is worthless, and worse it may actually negatively impact novice readers, who try to put might find themselves in for a shock when they come across a Pyro player who’s figured out how to cope with the situations himself.
I suppose I just wish you would have put in the better thought required and broadened your discussion as opposed to choosing one very narrow, very obvious direction, that’s all.
But, hey, if you don’t, I’ll just start skipping your articles and there won’t be any skin off either of our backs.
Secret Agent Clank! responded on 27 Jun 2009 at 5:06 pm #
Soldier’s easy, suuuure, but Pyro is easier.
As is “defensive” Engineer.
Also, if you know the ropes, you can get around quite well as a Heavy (even without a Medic).
noodleboy347 responded on 27 Jun 2009 at 6:18 pm #
Pyro circles around the Heavy, Heavy can’t track him. Heavy dies. And yes, underwater, Pyros can still damage players, they just don’t light on fire. Test it.
TGF responded on 27 Jun 2009 at 11:28 pm #
Just wanted to mention that you don’t need a full charge if using Huntsman to headshot a Pyro. In fact less then 25% charge will be enough provided that you can headshot reliably.
DoomGuy responded on 28 Jun 2009 at 6:41 am #
@Comissar Cain
You need to look at the Steam Forums once in a while. They seriously consider the W+M1 Pyro to be OP. This is one of my main reason why I made this. The advice is easy and it’s definitely common sense, but people WILL still regularly die to them. Also, I hope at least the newer people will learn a couple of tricks from it too, like Soldier Juggling or my “luring them into stickies” tip.
I know it’s a easy fight yet, as I said, people consider them to be OP.
I know Soldier has all this depth to him (I should know, he’s one of my MPCs) but due to his health and splash damage he can help just by spamming rockets into them (It isn’t effective and is no way any substitute for skill, but point is, it’s better than a failspy, for example). W+M1 Pyro can’t do that (Or shouldn’t but since most people can’t grasp that S+M1 completely counters W+M1 they get killed by them.)
IT’S A SNIDE ARTICLE WITH POSSIBLY USEFUL INFO. MAGNETRO IS FIRST TO GET TO IT.
@noodleboy347
Heavy learns to aim. Pyro dies.
Or.
Heavy gets out Natascha. Pyro circles ineffectively. Pyro dies. Heavy eats celebratory sandvich.
Teatime responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 4:54 am #
Not to revive our old feud, but once more this are advices based on 1vs1 observations.
The reason why W+M1 can be so effective (no further judgment here, I belong neither to group A or B) is that they usually rush you in the middle of a frickin’ battle, when your attention might be somewhere else, you are already dancing with a demo or trying to avoid getting into the line of fire of that sg over there, etc.
TF2 is rarely a perfect 1vs1, with both sides free to navigate and with perfect health.
Don’t get me wrong, the advice is good and helpful, but the perspective is flawed.
But many of the images are great
DoomGuy responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 6:46 am #
@ Teatime
That’s not really W+M1 though. That taking advantage of you being distracted. Remember, just be constantly watching out. It won’t kill you to take a quick glance at the back of you during battle.
Furious Badger responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 8:47 am #
I play a decent amount of pyro. Okay, a LOT of pyro. Prior to the spy snipah update, my most-played were Engie and Pyro, and now Snipah is creeping up a bit, with the huntsman.
People complain about the Pyro not requiring skill because they themselves lack skill. I will get my hide dominated regularly by people of various classes. Because they know what they’re doing, and don’t stand somewhere I can ambush them. I’ll freely admit I’m more than willing to dive off a cliff onto Blue’s cart just so I can see how many people I can set on fire, knowing I’ll die. This isn’t about W+M1, it’s causing a ton of afterburn, and now they’re all worried about killing me rather than the medic/heavy team who’s just turning the corner and who will gib the lot as they try and take me down.
This is how I play. I’m a suicidal homical jerk with a flamethrower. My job is to get into a situation where I can burninate the most people I can. W+M1 is a valid tactic, in that sometimes you’re stuck in the open and you NEED to get to a decent spot, and the only way is rushing. If you die to a pyro doing this, you weren’t paying enough attention. Every class has a cheap noob-tactic that is used constantly because it can get you cheap kills. Cheap = EFFECTIVE. Demos have sticky traps. Heavies camp corners. Soldiers rocket spam at choke points. Snipahs camp from a distance and shoot people in the head. Scouts run around like literal bastards and hope they can get a kill with scattergun + random jabbing at the movement keys. Medics find someone good, latch medigun to them, and collect kill credits. Spy’s the only class that doesn’t really have a noob kill, and that solely because everyone’s familiar enough with them now that a noob spy is pretty obvious even if disguised.
None of those tactics take a lot of skill. I’m not great, and I can use ‘em all with at least moderate effectiveness. I’ve probably died far more times to a random crocket to the face as I turn a corner than to a pyro who just mindlessly charges.
Murray responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 10:14 am #
I agree with everything Furious Badger said.
Dust Monkey responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 3:45 pm #
Great post. I now know how to take on those damn W+M1’s. One thing I don’t agee on though is using Natash, I think you’ll find that when it gets down to point blank range minigun > flamethrower but the flamethrower > Natasha in terms of damage and even if you do manage to kill the pyro you’ll probably burn out anyway unless you’re standing next to a medikit.
Ninja Kow responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 4:19 pm #
Hey, another person who knows backpedaling is slower!
I’m honestly shocked that there are so many seasoned players who can’t do anything but whine about these guys. If they’re so annoying and common, start practicing to beat them! If your precious sniper spot is getting overrun by pyros, maybe there’s a class imbalance you can fix by switching!
But, when pyros on the enemy team start getting annoying I just grab my rocket launcher; I’m starting to get pretty dangerous with it.
When I’m a scout (and sometimes medic) and I’m already within the pyro’s flamethrower range, I like to suddenly stop backpedaling and charge around them or jump over their heads, it does great for disorienting them.
DoomGuy responded on 29 Jun 2009 at 9:20 pm #
@Furious Badger
Kamikazes are part of a good pyro’s arsenal too, I agree. When I kamikaze, I always make sure to try and attack from a slightly unexpected angle to give myself a bit more survivability and then start playing like a Scout: Run around like crazy and constantly knock them back with the airblast letting other people move in.
@Ninja Kow
I was amazed as well. People that I know are very good whine about them constantly. One of them is even a admin, who if I ever speak up to say, “W+M1 isn’t OP at all,” he’ll mute me. Seriously. many of them say, “Well, I die when I’m distracted by something!”. Now, wouldn’t that be smart thing for a pyro to do? Attack the enemy while distracted rather than when they are at full attention? They also say, “Well, I die when they attack me when I have 30hp after me killing 5 people etc.” Once again, how is it OP that a class can only kill you when you have a tenth of your health left?
@Teatime
All these tips have been used by me in situations where I’m facing like 4 people. You think you can only do this when only you vs them? Nonsense. There’s such a thing as priority targets and a W+M1 pyro that is dangerously close is one of them. It’s the same thing with Scout. He’ll first take out the most dangerous class in the group first, then focus on the rest of them.
Dark Master responded on 30 Jun 2009 at 1:39 pm #
If a heavy can’t beat a pyro right in front of him while reved, he needs to turn up his sensitivity. That should almost never happen.
DoomGuy responded on 30 Jun 2009 at 11:14 pm #
@DarkMaster
Exactly right. I can’t see the problem with pyros strafing in front of you. It’s clever, yes, because you’re making yourself less of a clear target, but it isn’t really hard at all. Just aim where you think the pyro is while spraying a bit to the left and right.
W + M1 Pyro responded on 08 Jul 2009 at 5:54 am #
I’m a w+m1 pyro. Whenever I see a group of opposing players my first thought is, “Why aren’t they on fire?” I almost always rush headfirst, flamethrower on full blast to do this becuase… hey its fun. People all running around screaming and looking for medics or healthpacks. Its great. Whats really awesome is screwing up some planned uber push by setting the medics on fire first or airblasting the ubered heavy up in the air like some glowing pinata. I’ll even rush you underwater, thats what my shotgun is for.
The only things that I might pause for is if I think there is a spy around because setting those guys on fire is a special treat. Stupid sneaky invisible bastards, not so invisible now are you. I also stop to airblast one of my teammates if he is burning and if someone is picking on one of my medics or engies.
I hate the large open spaces. There is no where to hide. I’m pretty fast but those stupid scouts are faster. Always hopping around and firing that stupid shotgun. I can normally take one of those guys since they usually need to get close to do real damage. The smart ones keep hitting and running away. Open areas also have snipers and I hate those guys. Sometimes I can get lucky and sneak up one on thats scoped and then its BBQ time. I also hate that new bow they carry. Getting an arrow stuck in my head at point blank really smarts.
Heavies are just plain death. The only pyros that don’t run away from those are dead ones. Its not like a medic is going to give me an uber or anything. I you are playing heavy and getting killed by a pyro then you suck. The mini-gun kills me in what, 2 seconds? The best I can do is set you (and your medic) on fire and run away. I can circle-strafe the slow ones though.
Its the same thing for sentry guns. Thats why I like setting engies on fire. Thats one less sentry gun I have to deal with. If you are an engie and you aren’t hiding behind your sentry then I’m going to set you on fire. Hell, I might set you fire anyways, but that sentry is going to cut me down every damn time.
Soldiers and demomen are mid-range guys which are also a problem since I don’t have any mid-range weapons. Yea, I got my shotgun, but thats boring. The flare gun is fun to play with for a bit but kind of lame. But the good news is that soldiers always bring enough rockets to share. I love playing rocket pong. The clever ones shoot them at my feet which means I need to rush forward to try to send it back, which is fine by me. That means I can get closer. The demoman is just a hassle I can send one or two pipebombs back but he just spams them too quickly. So I usually just run away and find someone else who isn’t paying enough attention to who’s behind them.
Neoviper responded on 08 Jul 2009 at 11:08 pm #
W+M1 is very frustrating to me, because it is so simple a way to remove your options. You have to run away, or get burned to death. Most people pick the first option. If you happen to be fighting anyone else at the moment, generally they will kill you as you are running. Many a time, I will be keeping my distance, hammering him with scattergun bullets, but I accidentally bump into a wall and die. It doesn’t always work out like that, but when it does you know it was through no merit of the pyros that he killed you, just the circumstances forced on you by his class choice. That is irritating to no end.
fucktheOP responded on 09 Jul 2009 at 12:36 am #
What about group C) People at low hp who get killed by noob w+m1 pyro’s?
There is no shortage of these bastards.
W + M1 Pyro responded on 09 Jul 2009 at 9:40 am #
Hang on, it looks like there is a scout that doesn’t pay attention to where he is. WHHOOOOSHHHH
That was fun, look at him run around like some twerpy candle. Oh wait… he stopped running. Oh, well.
Maybe we’ll get a complaint from some sniper that never looks away from his scope next.
DoomGuy responded on 10 Jul 2009 at 10:05 am #
@fucktheOP
To those in group C I’d say “If the only way you get killed by W+M1 Pyros is when you have no health left, then how the fuck does it make W+M1 OP?”
Alias responded on 11 Jul 2009 at 4:38 am #
Well, the W+M1 pyros often arent that stupid as you mention. Those are the ones that anoy the Type A ones most.
I dont realy mind against the W+M1 tactic itself. I however do hate it when some combine it with the backburner. The backburner doesnt require any skill at all for W+M1. The backburner should be good for ambushing but W+M1 often is far from that while it still works 90% of the time like it was an ambush. Thats just not right. The backburning itself should be strong but i think it should be only on a succesfull ambush. Not a head on attack where the enemy turns arround because a spy is about to backstab them. Half of the time you get backburned by the Type B players, that makes the pyro frustrating against you.
You also mention its easy for the scout. Well, its not. as burning is quite effective already and you are forced to get in a quite close range the inital damage often gets over 100 and that makes the afterburn kill you. Yes you kill the pyro but that single kill doesnt compensate the fact youll have to respawn also (and in general W+M1 pyros are closer to the spawn giving them the advantage). Still, as you can run to healthpacks much faster then the pyro you can often recieve alot more damage. To me it should be a fair chalenge if you face one. but a 7 is too high to me. it should be more like 5 as in any normal battle you also die (healthpacks arent on the floor that often when you need them – the general fact of having bad luck with it).
And for the medic, it might seem a logical choise that they take a blutsauger but some dont and it makes a huge diffirence. For a blutsauger W+M1 pyros often die if you run away and shoot to them (as you gain health faster then he can burn it away most of the time). The standard syringe doesnt have this and so they die most of the time.
I say:
With blut the effectiveness is 9/10 (its extremely easy to beat it)
Without its 5/10 as hard as with a scout.
Its however a nice guide if you dont know how to counter the W+M1. I know how to but i still find it anoying to face one… But thats probably because i most of the time am at the front line having half health. Also, dont rely on your team when facing a pyro. They often run away to avoid the fire instead of taking the risk to save you.
Still, the Airblasts own. Its allmost as satisfying to kill with it as killing with a taunt. And its much easier then taunting. And when i see a pyro W+M1ing with one i know they either are a noob (they should learn the game some way) or they picked the weapon because they prefer the airblast (which is a smart choise).
Oh, and about the: What about group C) People at low hp who get killed by noob w+m1 pyro’s?
How can you know if they are noob? People can see that you are damaged by the blood. That makes a reason to W+M1 at you and its impossible to see if they are noobs. and even if they are… what diffirence does it make? With low health you are doomed against allmost any class.
DoomGuy responded on 12 Jul 2009 at 10:24 am #
@W+M1 pyro
Who actually equips syringe gun?
kaptin scuzgob responded on 07 Aug 2009 at 8:46 am #
I just thought: Pyro is a close combat class, right? So if he’s suddenly in your face when you turn the corner, of course he’s going to run at you. So it pretty stupid when players complain about W+M1 Pyroing. He’s not gonna go S+M2 is he?
EDO responded on 12 Aug 2009 at 8:25 pm #
“Also, I can’t stress enough how useful the airblast is. Here’s a guide to using it: http://www.ubercharged.net/?s=magnetro”
your link is broken
Jreengus responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 10:56 am #
Two things, firstly as a decent huntsman sniper w+m1 pyros are free points, it doesn’t take much charge coupled with a headshot to bring them down, normally long before they are within flaming distance.
Secondly as a pyro facing a w+m1 pyro by far the easiest way to take them down is to run backward firing. In any pyro v pyro fight always be the pyro running back! This helps due to the fact that flames do less damage the longer they have been fired for, the enemy is running into your flames increasing their damage and you are running away from theirs decreasing your damage. You can take down a full health pyro this way losing less than half your life.
Also @ Alias are you complaining that low health people get killed easily by w+m1 pyros? Well no s*** Sherlock! Why not complain that medics can kill low health players or demos or soldiers or try any class out there!
Jreengus responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 10:59 am #
Oh, sorry about that alias, I didn’t read all the comments so I didn’t realise you were responding to someone complaining not complaining yourself.
bug responded on 13 Aug 2009 at 2:25 pm #
I try to balance my gameplay across all the classes, with the exception of heavy and scout i have at least/over 100 hrs in each, i believe this is key to survival with/against any class, as by playing (and getting beaten as) each class you become more aware of their weaknesses (which you can in turn use against said classes).
As engie for instance, it’s not actually too difficult to take a pyro down, the shotgun is an excellent mid-range weapon for any class. take advantage of the fact the pyro can’t actually see much around him/her for all the flaming. circle to his/her blind spot and shotty him/her in the ear
engie also has a unique advantage – less experienced players will frequently target his buildings first. ever see an uber meleeing a dispenser, while a heavy/soldier/demo waits patiently for some easy kills, and the engie skips merrily to safety? it’s a silly kind of tunnel vision. if you’re being chased by a pyro, drop a dispenser or sentry between you, i can almost guarantee that they will drop everything right away and attempt to bust it up … by this point you should be unloading your shotty into their face (or getting the hell outta there)! works on scouts too
don’t worry about losing the metal, if you kill’em you can pick up their weapon and voila, you’ve got >=100 metal again. if they have a medic, and you’re feeling lucky, shotty the med first. 3-4 reasonable hits should do it, that leaves 2-3 for the pyro and a full pistol clip. easy *cough*.
if you’ve got the advantage of distance or a diversion, drop a sentry and hit it with your wrench till it’s shooting the bugger. they’ll go for it first and it will weaken them, allowing for a couple of easy shots with the pistol. this works a lot better if you’ve got your buildings bound to a quick-key. i have mine all bound to my extra mouse buttons. most importantly: don’t waste any time!! if your sentry gets busted, pick up the debris for ~50 metal (if possible) and you should have just enough for another one.
i do tend to play engie as an offensive class, with over 200hrs, have beaten many ubers, incl. uber pyro (when i’ve had time to properly set up a lvl3 disp, or camped a health pack), so this tactic’s not for the faint of heart!
Kenny responded on 26 Aug 2009 at 5:00 am #
Aha, thanks for the info bro! Hopfully I will be playing more as Soldier now!