No bonking please, we’re British

by GeneralGoose on March 11th 2009

Okay, before I start ranting and raving, a quick disclaimer: I do like the way Valve updates TF2 and I will, ultimately, appreciate the Scout Update and the various changes it brings. Admittedly, Scout is my least favourite and least played class, and to me the Scout Update was always going to be my least favourite. However, several of the choices Valve made have greatly disappointed me and the community, and the way some (read: most) players have handled it means I’ll be sticking to L4D for a few days. Even though this rant may make me seem like a moany git, most of my future posts will be less angry and grumpy (though still quite angry and grumpy. Hey, you don’t come here to read just articles on lovely players and things Valve has done right.)

THE SCOUT UPDATE PAGE

Ah yes, the Scout Update Page. Updated daily to present new information about the latest weapons and maps. We all constantly refreshed just to read a new page of info. Ah, good times. However, several mistakes were made even outside of the game:

Lateness: Over 2 hours late with updating the page several times. Well, no big deal. Typical Valve time. Minor annoyance at best, aside from the wasted hours (oh, and the F5 key on my computer is much less dusty then the ones around it.)

Showing the dual payload map: They showed what was clearly a dual payload map in the background of the Bonk! page. Was this the radically different game mode Valve had boasted was coming soon (hope not, it’s not that different)? Or was it the new payload map they had announced for the update? Whatever it was, it wasn’t put into the actual update, causing much disappointment and sadness. Hopefully it will come out soon.

The final “update”: Just the poll results. No official maps from Valve (come on, don’t rely on the community for a whole class update like you did here) and no “Meet the Team” video (come on, finish/release the series, focus on those comics after).

It was a community update: The weapons and the order of unlocking was all decided by the community. Sure, the weapons are all alright on paper, but the Sandman, in execution, sucks. And the traditional Secondary, Primary, Melee release date worked great. And Valve, community maps are great, but please make your own.

THE WEAPONRY

The new weapons for the Scout are arguably the biggest draw of the update. Now, as I have not played Scout in eons, I’m speaking from the point of view of the receiving end, from which the view is not as nice.

Force-A-Nature: I’d say it’s fairly balanced. Annoying, yes, but fighting a Scout armed with this weapon is as hard/easy as fighting one wielding the Scattergun (depends on the situation.) The triple-jump is useful, but not as useful as an explosives-powered jump.

Suggestions: Well, this is the most balanced weapon of the update. No suggestions here. If any changes must be made, nerf the firing speed and damage output a bit. Two shots of it, if all the pellets get in, can do approximately 199 damage, killing all but two classes. However, this isn’t a big worry unless coupled with the Sandman.

Bonk!: Annoying, but also fairly useless in many situations. Yes, it can get past a Heavy or a Sentry-infested corridor, but admittedly sentries in open spaces as well as heavily occupied bases make this an extremely niche replacement. NEVER TAUNT WHILE DOING IT, btw. You’ll just get punched/stabbed/wrenched/blown up/hadoukened. It is really only useful for the team with teammate support (someone destroys the sentry while the Scout distracts it) but most Scouts are mentally incapable of serious teamwork.

Suggestions: Well, teammates have got to cooperate with a Scout using Bonk, and vice versa. More vanilla Scout players will likely stick to the Pistol.

Sandman: A wee bit overpowered in my opinion (read: piece of overpowered bullcrap). While the loss of a double jump is significant, with the Force-A-Nature, you get an additional double jump, and Scouts can still do a lot without it anyway. The ball fires instantly, STUNS UBERED PLAYERS and is incredibly cheap and annoying, as well as hard to dodge and reflect. And really, with Bonk! and the Sandman, scouts aren’t meant to be an uber counter, they’re meant to be uber fodder. Thanks to this, Scouts can deal with Heavy Medic teams easily. And before you say “Stop whining, move”, sometimes, you can’t move in time, or see the fast Sandman come at you.

Suggestions: Valve, choose any or preferably all these suggestions. No more ubering stunned players, make it less spammable, make Medigun healing shorten the length of the stun, give stunned players temporary immunity to another ball, make the stun time shorter and less helpless, maybe an entirely different stun effect and maybe make it so the Scout is somewhat less capable of dealing damage to the stunee. And the best suggestion: remove it. A melee weapon should not have a ranged attack (outside of kill taunts.) As mentioned, the FoN can do a lot of damage, and coupled with the 5 damage of the ball, can kill all but 1 class. That is just seriously screwed up.

The kill taunt: The Scout got a kill taunt for use with the Sandman. Some of you may remember Phoenix wrote an article on what classes should have kill taunts and he disagreed with the Scout having one. I half agree and disagree. Scouts have little practical use for a kill taunt, but hey, it’s not having any real effect on Gameplay so I’m not complaining.

A POINT BY POINT ANALYSIS OF THE UPDATE

New features

  • Added The Force-A-Nature, The Sandman, and Bonk! (Read above)
  • Added 35 new Scout achievements (Some of the achievements require grinding, farming and hours of play, but I don’t really have any experience with them. But half the achievements involve the Sandman. Change them, I swear the Sandman is the worst thing ever to come to Tf2.)
  • Added crit boosted on/off sound effects (Yeah, I suppose it’s alright.)
  • Added new sounds for upgraded teleporters (Makes them more identifiable which can’t be bad)
  • Added new sound for a fully charged medic dying (Hmm, hope it sounds good as getting killed like this is frustrating)
  • Add bonus points section to scores (is the one below the only bonus point?)
  • Scouts earn a bonus point for killing Medics who are actively healing a target (Meh, I can see why they did it, but buffing a classes ability to reap points is pretty stupid in my book.)
  • Added several new speech concepts, mostly hooked up to new Scout lines (Love ‘em. Only complaint is every class now needs them.)
  • Added new “Remember last weapon between lives” option to the Multiplayer Advanced dialog (The option is there, which is nice)
  • Spies can now control which weapon the enemy team sees them holding. Hitting the “last disguise” key while disguised updates the disguise to show the Spy’s currently held weapon (Nice, but ultimately just means more paranoia. Could mean more inexperienced players/those in a hurry are fooled, but overall we still know who you are.)
  • Added several new Arena mode announcer speech events. (Rarely play Arena, but nice touch.)
  • Added “First Blood” to Arena mode (From what I understand, a boost to the first player to kill another. Sounds interesting, but makes crits in Arena even more unbalanced.)
  • Removed 2x item respawn times in arena (Minor fix, but, as I said, with the short amount of time I have spent in Arena, don’t really care.)
  • Changed backstab handling to fix facestabs (In my experience, doesn’t work)
  • Spies disguised as enemy team can now see player IDs for enemies (Nice, should make for some nice “Oh wait, that’s my friend/oh crap, it’s the team’s lone pyro and I’m disguised as him/I’m dominating him, don’t act suspicious” moments.)

New maps

  • Added community maps: cp_egypt, arena_watchtower, and cp_junction (Played junction and egypt a few times, but only under “rush” conditions (too many Pyros, Spies and Scouts). They both seem decent. Haven’t played Watchtower but have heard good things about it.)
  • Updated cp_fastlane with Arttu’s new version (Weren’t really a big fan of Fastlane, wasn’t improved much at all and the visual changes are lazy.)

Mapmaker requests

  • Added new input for forward speed modifier to FuncTrainTrain
  • Added TeleportToPathTrack input to func_tracktrain (A few fixes to train stuff. I don’t really know, sounds good, but doesn’t directly affect me.)

Bugfixes

  • Fixed a bug where players would sometimes gib from non-gib damage kills (Oh, I liked this glitch.)
  • Fixed stat screen showing an entry for a class called “map.” (Ha, ha, silly Valveface.)
  • Fixed item model panels not using team skins (A mildly annoying but quite common glitch, if it’s the one I think it is.)
  • Fixed obscure bug where spectators were able to carry the flag (I can see why Valve put this as small print. Sounds embarrassing.)

AND NOW A RANT TO YOU, YES YOU

Now, I know it’s only natural to try grabbing the achievements and to try out the new weapons, but for Christ’s sake, some of us want to enjoy the content without loads of ineffective teams of scouts farming achievements and running head on into sentries. Please, if you must farm, get solo achievements or go on a farming server. Playing some classes instantly becomes a lot more frustrating, such as the demoman (and playing any friendly class. Medics and Engies lose a lot of power).

And once again, USE THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB. Please don’t just carry on playing as Scout because you want achievements. If there’s a sentry, pick a class that can do more then just run away from it drinking energy drinks. And rushing blindly at the objective doesn’t work. You can’t suffocate the defending team to death with dead scout corpses and gibs.

Please, just play the game as usual. If you actually have any interest in playing the scout, the achievements will come in time.

68 Comments »

GeneralGoose on March 11th 2009 in pyro, rants, scout

Stumble it!

68 Responses to “No bonking please, we’re British”

  1. Paxswill responded on 11 Mar 2009 at 8:11 pm #

    Ugh, what’s with all the bitching? Yes, the Sandman is more than a bit over powered, but I don’t want to come here to read the same stuff in the Steam Forums. (Personal opinion on the matter: Slow down the baseball, so Pyros can airblast it, and classes can dodge it. To make up for the loss, maybe increase the damage and decrease the firing speed. Just my two cents)

  2. abbe responded on 11 Mar 2009 at 8:35 pm #

    This was a waste of my time, you whine too much and havent got personal experience with using the weapons.

    Sandman spammable? Not really. Overpowered? Yes, reduce the stun to 50% and it should be enough to make it balanced. Also, it shouldn’t force the player to third person, that’s really bad.

    FAN is really balanced and yes it can do 200 damage in two shots, but you know what else can do 200 damage in two shots, ANY SHOTGUN. It only does it faster, and you have to reload much more often and the knockback actually makes you miss most of the second shot if youre unlucky. I dont know how many medics ive failed to assassinate with the FAN.

    You got some valid points, but nothing that haven’t been talked about here once or twice already.

  3. Mickyan responded on 11 Mar 2009 at 8:37 pm #

    Besides I’m tired of all the rants going on, this one actually have some valid points, i tip my hat at you

    besides, you once again fall in the “just remove the sandman” pit of idiotness, which is a shame, i agree on balancing the sandman, but far from removing it. The scout is finally not a useless class, it could be simply ignored before the update, not anymore.

    And again:you’ve got to be almost point blank to kill a medic with two shots of the force a nature, there is no way you’re going to kill a heavy.. and if a scout actually manage to kill you as an heavy it’s either your fault to try to charge alone, or your teammate’s for not protecting you.You remember that? Team fortress is based on teamplay. The scout’s got 125 health, little more than a rocket is needed to kill him (and you’ll rarely see a full health scout, medics completely ignore them) and he’s less likely going to be able to get close enough to hit you once if you’ve got someone on your side, anyone playing scout knows that charging head on ends in dieing in less than 0.2 s

    And when did exactly valve say the scout couldn’t be the class to fear on an 1on1? It’s easy to say “He’s not supposed to be..”, you can just say “he wasn’t”. As heavy, you got your minigun spun up, let’s say you’re getting to the front line from the spawn and you’re alone, you see a scout charging at you wielding his sandman, most heavies will just stand still trying to kill the scout with the minigun from a mile away, getting killed by the sandman unless the scout is an idiot. The smart heavy will either start using his shotgun and try to pick the scout from distance and -EASILY- dodging the ball by jumping around, or if he has got his sandvich he can basically do one of these:

    1. Trying to dodge the ball WITHOUT HAVING HIS MINIGUN SPUN UP, either trying to kill the scout when he missed or hope for a team mate to come by to help
    2. Trying to use the minigun as a sniper rifle

    On a side note: the ball doesn’t stun at all if you’re very close to the target

  4. CrabGuy responded on 11 Mar 2009 at 9:34 pm #

    Too much whining for my tastes

  5. Eldrake responded on 11 Mar 2009 at 10:01 pm #

    I think we are beginning to lose readers.

    We need to get back at writing humor for UC.

  6. Headwoünd responded on 11 Mar 2009 at 10:30 pm #

    Of all the rant bits, the last one was the whiniest and most hopeless. But plenty QQ in all of them which ruined some valid points.

    Only slight adjustment to the Sandman I’d like to see is a more steep distance:stuntime ratio, i.e. not enough time for the Scout to kill you when he fired the damn thing point blank at you as you turn a corner.

  7. Kollega responded on 11 Mar 2009 at 11:04 pm #

    And once again,REMOVE THE SANDMAN. Or nerf it at very least. It’s annoying,cheap,and allows Scout to win constantly in 1-on-1 fights. Now,some of “anti-whiners” will certainly say “Scout was useless,sandman made him useful, dodge/move in crowds/lrn2play/stfu”.

    And you know what? I hate you. Yes you,”anti-whiners”, especially you, Adrian! (you know where it’s from…) Shame on you,go fuck yourselves,then die in a fire! It’s just TOO satisfying to use Sandman,and WAY TOO frustrating to be hit by it. Surely,now Scout will be played more often. Problem is,you can’t play Heavy even half-decently nowadays. And who do you prefer to see more oftenly: incredibly annoying and irritating little prick (aka Scout),or the Heavy,pretty much the FACE OF TEAM FORTRESS 2?

    I don’t even know. Remove uber-stun,shorten stun duration,make it depend on health/speed of the target,rather than range. Do whatever it takes to REDUCE Sandman’s power to “acceptable” degree.

    … I know i’m going to get flamed for this post. Lock the doors!

  8. Ryan Williams responded on 11 Mar 2009 at 11:45 pm #

    Wait, what? Kill taunt?

    God damn, I didn’t know about that.

  9. Metal_Link responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 12:17 am #

    “It was a community update: The weapons and the order of unlocking was all decided by the community.”

    Oh good, now we have someone to blame this on. The Community.

    Now we can rest easily knowing that it wasn’t Valve’s fault for releasing such a monstrosity. I bet Valve could have done a better job if they didn’t listen to us too much, like they did with the previous updates.

    But this bitching and moaning is getting more annoying than the Scout teams themselves. Teams are going back to being balanced, people have started to get over it. Now it’s your turn.

    (When I say “your turn”, I mean not only you, the writer, but also some of your writer buddies. And the Steam forums too. They need to get over everything.)

  10. Jager responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 12:50 am #

    I play scout a lot, and I don’t even use the force-o-nature and bonk drink. They are less useful then the normal weapons the scout has.

    The Sandman is useful in some situations but the loss of double jump really hurts (literally, since I don’t use force-o-nature I can no longer fall long distances without getting hurt, since I can’t jump at the bottom).

    This rant didn’t really take any of that into account though, and just felt like whining about the update. Time to move on with your life. Maybe time for me to move on from ubercharged, if this is what they are going to produce.

  11. n00bie51 responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 12:53 am #

    abbe, you’re wrong. The shotgun can’t deal 200 points of damage with two shots. I just tested it out as a Soldier — I stood on top of a Soldier bot (200 HP), fired twice with the shotgun at point blank, and it still lived. I’ve done several tests, and the FAN’s two blasts at point blank don’t deal 200 points of damage. You’re right about two Scattergun blasts dealing ? 200 points of damage, though.

    Mickyan, I think the Scout was the most balanced class in Team Fortress 2. Sure, Valve never said that the Scout shouldn’t be a good 1v1 class, but here’s the thing: It already was. Good Scouts employed this thing called skill to their advantage when they circle-strafe, flank, and fire accurately and precisely, especially against Heavies.

    Now, with the Sandman, who needs to do that anymore when you can just stun any opponent and shoot them standing still? Perhaps one can argue, “Just jump around and dodge the ball,” but how the Hell is a Heavy supposed to do that while revving his gun? That’s change that I find extremely disagreeable and that’s something Heavy players shouldn’t have to adapt to.

    The Scout’s my second MPC and my favorite. As an experienced Scout, I don’t approve of the Scout update and think it’s the worst class pack out of all the ones released so far. Join the discussion here if you’d like:

    http://www.ubercharged.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=990&p=1

  12. soylent robot responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 12:58 am #

    the main problem ive noticed with the sandman agains tubers is that the medic is most often seemingly unaware theyre not ‘locked’ onto the person theyre ubering. ive seen many instances where the guy being ubered has been stunned, and his medic would JUST STAND NEXT TO HIM waiting for the stun to wear off. there were plenty of teammates around to switch the uber to, but it seems that medics get a little singleminded when they uber

  13. n00bie51 responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 2:34 am #

    Either that, or the Medics just want their Übered to stay safe while they recover.

  14. Pin0 responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 3:02 am #

    I thought I was on ubercharged? But it appears that I’m on the steamforums

  15. GeneralGoose responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 3:09 am #

    As I mentioned, I don’t usually rant, and well, I don’t think the Sandman is that overpowered per se. Just screws with the balance of the game (making Scouts weaker against certain classes but stronger against others to a much too drastic extent). The main problem is it’s not fun to fight against. Unlike with Natascha and juggling weapons like the rockets and airblast, you can’t fight back. The only time you shouldn’t be able to fight back is when taunting or during humiliation.

    I was really pissed off at the Sandman when I wrote the remove comment, and I weren’t being serious. However, it needs changes and/or nerfs. Not nerf and a buff, just a nerf. Dracula Guy’s suggestion to just increase the crit chance is good.

    And sure, the situation I mentioned where a Scout can kill all but one class is rare. I actually like the new community maps somewhat, and the FaN and Bonk are decent.

    And btw, if you think this site only produces rants, look to the right under “Recent”.

  16. Paper Shadow responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 3:28 am #

    Also, General Goose, you need a Gravatar!

    http://en.gravatar.com/

  17. xx responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 3:48 am #

    BRING BACK ZORGULON.

  18. n00bie51 responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 3:51 am #

    Last time I checked, ÜberCharged was built on rants. Madlep was the original ranter on this website. To all the noobs who claim the contributors are doing nothing but whining, bitching, and complaining, then you must hate madlep because he was the original ranter.

  19. Mickyan responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 3:51 am #

    The scout is my most played class aswell and i agree with your point of the scout becoming a class less based on skills, and i’m quite annoyed by it aswell

    But i am far from saying that the sandman need to be removed, a nerf i can understand, expecially on the duration of the stun, but i can’t take those that argue against the sandman saying it’s the most powerfull weapon in the game and makes the scout completely unbeatable. That’s just plain bullshit.

    What i would like to see in the sandman is having so that it still stuns the enemy for quite a long amont of time, but by the time he’s stunned he can’t shoot nor duck or jump, so that he’s still an easy target, but have at least a chance to survive. That’d hopefully stop all the whining about it and i’d still think it’s a usefull weapon.

  20. n00bie51 responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 4:06 am #

    Yeah, Mickyan, I don’t actually think it destroys the game or that it’s the most powerful unlockable. Obviously the Scout is far from unbeatable — I would also disagree with anybody who would be foolish enough to make such an argument.

    Personally, I think the Sandman shouldn’t even exist, but removing it is an unrealistic expectation. I’d settle for nerfing it.

  21. mew4ever23 responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 4:47 am #

    As a career Engie who next to never plays as a Scout, I’m not (and so far, have not) even going to bother with the Scout achievements. The Heavy, Medic, and Pyro achievements i can justify, because they’re actually useful as something other than an annoyance. That’s really all I see Scouts as, an annoyance that get’s chewed up by a sentry.

  22. Sinister Minister responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 4:52 am #

    @n00bie: Sure, madlep ranted, but he was the only one ranting. Now most (if not all) are. It’s old. VERY OLD. Shall we look at the title of the main page again? “TF2 hilarity and pwnage”? I haven’t seen any of either for quite a while because it’s so damn saturated in whining.

  23. GeneralGoose responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 4:57 am #

    Okay, there are 10 posts in the “Recent” section. Most of them aren’t rants, only 2-5 are (depending on how you define rants.)

    And listen, it’s the aftermath of a major update: expect ranting.

  24. Scoutbit responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:16 am #

    I think i should stop coming here now

  25. Lawlingbawl responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:21 am #

    What should actually be done to nerf it is another topic all together, but I think we should get a table of stun times and decide what should be adjusted. I’m all for the uber stunning to be removed. With the bonk, you can already accomplish uber disruption by running up to them or blocking their way. Sure it’s a sacrifice, but you would have lost that encounter anyway. And before or if the argument “but the achievements..” comes/came up, it’s not like they didn’t come up with 50 before narrowing it down to 35 anyway. As for the stun time adjustment, reducing them by half seems right, because stopping an enemy from firing and getting yourself a lead should tip the encounter in your favor anyway.

  26. Killa-Ewok responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:22 am #

    @GeneralGoose

    “And listen, it’s the aftermath of a major FAILED update: expect ranting.”

    Fixed for you.

  27. Anonymous responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:32 am #

    and do any of you ranters ranting about rants realise the irony?

  28. Vitharr responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 6:14 am #

    @Scoutbit: I think you should stop coming here too.

  29. random_dude responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 6:20 am #

    ^
    that guy got you all good

  30. random_dude responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 6:20 am #

    meant anonymous

  31. Teridax responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 6:33 am #

    New title: Ubercharged.net: Tales of Whining and Sandman Nerfing

    Guys, just wait for a month or two for them to balance everything properly, after that you can QQ your heart out. Personally I’d think the best nerf would be for the Sman to stun on a melee hit, without a ball (with a 10 sec stun immunity to the victim afterwards) but I’ve played with the Sandman and I can tell you it’s more or less balanced already. They took 4 months to fix Natascha, they’ll probably take less for the Sandman, if it even NEEDS balancing.

    Btw, if you want to complain about Valve’s updates, go to the Steam forums. This site is for fun stories, not complaints. At least madlep’s rants were funny. These recent whine topics, however, are not.

    And 5 rants out of 10 recent topics is a pretty big figure. Too big.

  32. Teridax responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 6:35 am #

    Also, touché Anonymous. But you’re in this rant. DOUBLE irony. Ranting about the ranters on a rant.

  33. Mickyan responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 6:47 am #

    WE’RE STUCK IN A PARADOX

  34. Anonymous responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 6:55 am #

    Teridax: notice that Goose said 2-5 depending on how you look it. I myself acknowledge this a rant, but most of the other articles aren’t rants. Some, like Dracula Guy’s article, may be taken as a rant, but aren’t really.

    And he also said that the Sandman wasn’t that overpowered, just not fun to fight against. The game is meant to be fun for all, and frustrating weapons that leave no opportunity to fight back don’t help.

  35. User responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 7:19 am #

    Just add a required charge to the sandman like the demo’s sticky launcher.. or something. There are tons of alternatives to removing the sandman. And yeah, just give it a month or two, VALVe will balance it eventually.

  36. Teridax responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 7:24 am #

    To Anonymous. I don’t think anyone likes control taken away from them, but there are two examples of where it is perfectly accepted:

    - When you die, you spend up to 21 seconds doing absolutely NOTHING. Yep, you guessed, it’s the respawntime. It’s at least 4 times longer than stun time.

    - In other games, most often MMORPGs, you get stuns all the time. Yet no one complains about it, namely because it’s been there for a long time, and there to stay. In a few months you’ll absorb the Sandman like a headshot or a backstab.

    So just get used to it, and your problems will fade away. No, seriously.

  37. Teridax responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 7:25 am #

    ^What User said.

  38. Heavy Weapons Guy responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 7:26 am #

    ALL I SEE EES BUNCH OF BEETCHING AND WHINING.
    MOVE ALONG LITTLE BABIES.

  39. Anonymous responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 7:28 am #

    Teridax: Yeah, but unlike the Sandman, in most situations, you can do a lot to stop that respawn time. Unlike the Sandman, the respawn time is balanced and is actually more fun and less frustrating then being stunned repeatedly.

    And TF2 isn’t an MMORPG.

  40. wow responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 7:51 am #

    ubercharged just lost another reader… GOODBYE!

  41. Dracula Guy responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 8:06 am #

    God people, overreact much?
    You don’t have to read and agree every article.

  42. Anonymous responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 8:06 am #

    You’re all being immature if you’re storming off just because you disagree with the recent rants.

    GROW UP!

    LOOK!

    AN ARTICLE ABOUT A COMIC!

    NEXT PERSON TO MOAN AND RUN OFF CRYING BECAUSE OF TOO MANY RANTS, JUST SHUT UP.

  43. n00bie51 responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 8:11 am #

    What Dracula Guy said.

    Killa-Ewok, I find it ironic that you would say that now considering you made a certain comment at First-Person Shouter: http://www.firstpersonshouter.com/?p=158&cpage=2#comment-608

    (:

  44. Polterjunge responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 8:55 am #

    Well, I don’t want to talk about the whining stuff… But:
    “Lateness: Over 2 hours late with updating the page several times.”
    Do you know when the update came out in Europe? 3 am, 4am, I don’t mind.

    “Showing the dual payload map”
    Maybe they did this to kid the community…? “Hey, let’s give them something to rumor about”

    “Valve, community maps are great, but please make your own.” Why? If the community maps are great, why should Valve make their own? That’s just another
    way how Valve involves the community. Same with the poll.

    They’ve already made 6 Meet the Videos, 3 left. There were 6 (or 5 without the Scout) Class Updates left. So I suppose they have to leave some out.

  45. GeneralGoose responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 9:11 am #

    Polterjunge: The dual payload map got expectations and hopes up, but they were crushed. Hopefully, we’ll be seeing this map again soon.

    Lateness
    I did just say that it had hardly any affect minus slight annoyance. I’m European as well.

    Community maps
    Well, a lot of people have already played the community maps, so it’s not new content. And Valve has the potential to make the best maps as well as new gametypes.

    Poll
    The old order (Secondary, Primary, Melee) worked, but the new order just made the Sandman problem even worse, and just doesn’t work as well.

    Meet the Team
    The main reason I was annoyed about this is because the final update had nothing. I think that the Scout Update shouldn’t have been presented to be as big as the Heavy Update, because it wasn’t.

    And BTW:
    I originally thought the Sandman would be good, but being on the receiving end of it is enough to make me want to turn off TF2, something no other weapon can do. I understand the lack of double jump is significant, but this problem makes things harder and much less fun for Heavies, Medics and such.

  46. Dark Master responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 9:44 am #

    I’ll suggest what I suggested last time:

    “I say, have the stun time scale to the speed of the victim, Heavies and Soldiers have much shorter stun times then Pyros and Medics. Also, a reved Heavy can’t be stunned at all except at the maximum distance, and even then he is only stunned for 1 second. Honestly, his skull is thick enough to shrug off several baseball blows.

    The final thing I’d say is that Ubers should only be stunned for half the normal time, reved Heavies are completly immune, and short range hits never do anything.”

    Pretty sure the slodier’s helmet should be able to resist some of the blow too. Some people have also suggested scalling the stun to the current health of the target, with an overhealed heavy immune.

    The main problem with the Sandman as is that I was under the impression that the Heavy was suppose to be a scout counter class, now he is most vulnerable to the scout (with Sandman). Stunning Ubered Heavy is an even bigger problem, especially since the Heavy has to re-rev.

  47. GeneralGoose responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 9:47 am #

    Good ideas Dark Master.

  48. n00bie51 responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 10:27 am #

    Another thing, Bonk! is still ridiculous. I don’t care how balanced or how vulnerable it leaves the Scout, it’s invulnerability. I understand it’s to be used in smaller maps where there isn’t as much room to navigate and evade enemy fire and to get past entrenched Sentry Guns, but I don’t like how effectively it can be used to distract Sentries. Can we at least let the Scout die from head shots and back stabs, or damage equivalent to six stickies in an instant? I don’t think it’s over powered, but that would make it better.

    Another idea that may or may not be used with the previous idea is why not make the “Miss” similar to Critical Hits – something like a 10% chance of causing damage to a Scout. So if the entire team fired at the Scout, he would take a tiny amount of damage. Perhaps we could let the Bonk! time last a few seconds longer to balance it out. That’s something someone mentioned from somewhere some time ago, I can’t remember when, who, or where.

  49. Asdasdasd responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 10:33 am #

    Why the fuck would you taunt right after drinking the bonk?

  50. GeneralGoose responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 10:37 am #

    I’ve seen it happen before. Usually when there’s only a lone enemy, like a Heavy, in the area.

  51. Teridax responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 10:38 am #

    I think the best we can do about this is just leave this thread alone. It will die out soon enough and the umpteenth Sandman flame war with it. Wait a few months for valve to set things right (or not), or at least for the post-Update effect to cool down.

    Btw my idea for a possible Sandman nerf (if it even needs one) is to simply remove the ball. Instead you stun upon striking an enemy (for about, say, half current max stun time). The victim then cannot be stunned for 10 seconds. The Sandman becomes a true melee weapon, he has to risk his neck a bit more and the stun’s still useful for him, without taking too long. The main contra to this though is that Valve will have to replace several achievements, which would be a first.

  52. Teridax responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 10:40 am #

    I just realised that, after telling everyone to stop posting stuff about the Sandman, I just posted stuff on the Sandman. How embarassing.

  53. n00bie51 responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 11:36 am #

    Teridax, I guarantee you I will still be complaining about the Sandman because I find it as significantly flawed.

  54. Tim responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 11:54 am #

    I really don’t like this site now that its losing its humor or helpful tips or anything of that matter. How about someone actually posts some tips how to dodge a sandman instead whining about it?

  55. FlyingHat responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 12:14 pm #

    Triple whiny deluxe meal with a little bit of tl;dr.

    Do you want more arse nuggets with that?

  56. n00bie51 responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 1:50 pm #

    Tim, that’s the thing; it’s difficult to dodge the ball consistently against skilled opponents. When I don’t get hit by a baseball, it’s not because I have leet strafing skills (outside of playing as a Scout) so much as I got lucky and the Scout missed the baseball.

  57. Tim responded on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:17 pm #

    I was making an example.

  58. JOP responded on 13 Mar 2009 at 12:48 am #

    I just want to make sure I’m following this correctly:

    If you run into a Soldier’s crit rocket, there’s a good chance of instant death. Or, you can run into a regular rocket, get juggled, and spend the time falling back to earth waiting for the next rocket.

    If there is a Pyro behind you, or next to you, or right in front of you after running around the corner, then there’s a pretty good chance you will be dead shortly.

    If you step on a set of Demo stickies, you will be dead.

    If you step in front of a spun-up Heavy, you will most likely be dead.

    If you run into a level three sentry gun, chances are you will very shortly be dead. The Engineer will do a little dance of appreciation in your honour.

    If you run face-first into an uber or a kritzcharge, chances are you will be dead.

    If you should so happen to place your head squarely in the sights of the Sniper, you can probably expect to lose it.

    If you present your back to the Spy, will stab it without hesitation and you will be instantly dead.

    So.

    The Sandman… is overpowered… because it stuns you, and then the Scout might potentially kill you?

    Clearly this weapon has no place in the game!

  59. iluvtf2 responded on 13 Mar 2009 at 1:42 am #

    The dual payload map has been (roughly) made by a community member

    pl_dbl

    ‘double’ im guessing

  60. Wolf Plague responded on 13 Mar 2009 at 2:20 am #

    2:JOP
    That’s their primary combat capabilities.
    And they got only one.

    Scout have his mobility+shotgun+small frame to deal and avoid damage as primary means of hurtin’ people.
    Replacing melee – tertiary weapon of last resort – to LONG RANGE ANTIUBER SHUTDOWN ANY CLASS is ridiculous. For what I think, Sandman should be made PRIMARY replacement, not a backup weapon of instakill.

    Before “lrn2dodge lol” – any half decent scout can place ball at you at ~5-7 meters and perforate you during 1-1.5 second stun time. If you can’t do this, you just suck as scout. And dodging the ball is not much easier than dodging Soldier’s rockets – and they are responsible for most kills
    (http://www.hlstatsx.com/global_stats/statistics?game=tf2#settings)
    12,055,903 kills with slow moving, noisy rockets.
    Learn to dodge, much?

    PS To all people ranting about rants – STOP RANTING GO PLAY THE GAME. :)

  61. Dark Master responded on 13 Mar 2009 at 3:02 am #

    Here is a quote from my ‘essay’ from the “Cry some more” article:

    I think there are three reasons for the Sandman hate; first, a skilled scout usually did have the edge in most one-on-one battles before the update, but his victim always had the chance to turn the tables. After the update, if the victim is bonked with the ball, the scout has almost essentially won, the best thing the victim may be able to do is suicide so that they respawn faster, and maybe won’t be hit with the ball next time. The second problem is that it adds another perfect counter to the Heavy, who already has several, he didn’t need an essential nerf. Finally, teamwork is no longer necessary to seriously hamper the effectiveness of an Uber, the strongest weapon of the game.

    If you want to read the whole thing, its mainly aobut why ballancing the game is important.

  62. Dark Master responded on 13 Mar 2009 at 3:26 am #

    sQUEAKYfOAMpEANUT’s article, Soldier sucks lol. Sorry about that.

  63. GeneralGoose responded on 13 Mar 2009 at 3:37 am #

    JOP, as I have mentioned repeatedly in the Comments, I don’t think the Sandman is that overpowered. Just the most frustrating and unenjoyable weapon to fight against.

  64. Monchberter responded on 13 Mar 2009 at 10:39 am #

    I’m not keen on the way the Sandman stuns either. Removing that amount of control from the victim in a very jarring way is just hugely frustrating, the third person thing is just not right.

    My idea for a change:

    Keep the stun mechanic but change it to something resembling the Boomer vomit effect in L4D, i.e. you stay in first person, your screen goes funny and you can’t really see. Add to this perhaps weapon disabling but allow movement, but a 75%.

    This would be a much fairer way to deal with things.

  65. sole21000 responded on 15 Mar 2009 at 10:38 am #

    Why do people dislike the scout?

    I think he’s one of, if not the funniest class in terms of lines.

  66. GeneralGoose responded on 15 Mar 2009 at 12:50 pm #

    I don’t dislike the Scout, just the Sandman. The nerf did please me, but uber stunning still needs to go.

  67. n00bie51 responded on 17 Mar 2009 at 9:01 am #

    I don’t think anybody here said they disliked the Scout, and personally, it’s my favorite class. I just don’t approve of the class update.

  68. ubercharged.net – Dr. Scootlove, or how I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Sandman responded on 30 Aug 2009 at 11:34 am #

    [...] I know it’s not wise to open up old wounds, but bear with me [...]

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