Why can’t 2fort just DIE?
It takes a lot of pain for me to ragequit a server these days. The two reasons I ragequit are 1. the presence of osi-quality snipers on the other team and 2. the server’s next map being ctf_2fort (unfortunately, the cancel button doesn’t work half the time). And why is that? Why do I hate 2fort so much?
2fort sucks. Yes, it does. If it were a good map, I wouldn’t waste over 1500 words on bashing it!
I’ll come back to that in a minute. First, a very brief detour.
I swear I never meant to let it die
I just don’t care about you anymore
It’s not fair when you say that I didn’t try
I just don’t care about you anymore
Three Days Grace was perhaps referring to a fictitious woman when they wrote “Let it Die”-and while not my favorite song by any metric, it accurately describes my love-hate relationship with the mess that is 2fort.
When I started playing TF2, back when you all were little babies (who always cried), the first map I tried was good old ctf_2fort. It was an instant hit with me.
This was in the heady days of early TF2, back when the soldier could spam rockets, back when the pyro couldn’t compression-blast. Playing on 2fort, I got acquainted with the playstyle of TF2. I won’t even pretend like I was a good player–I was NOT–but I had a lot of fun nevertheless. (I had a different pseudonym back then, too, so I’m not identifiable to the people who dominated me and might remember me 
).
After hours of playing 2fort, I crossed the Rubicon and joined a Dustbowl/Gravelpit server. I was smitten, and I completely forgot about 2fort. Gravelpit, of course, represents all classes very well. It’s also a very well-designed map with a lot of thinking involved in its design. For instance, while the open spaces of the map make the map very scout friendly, concentrating health packs in enclosed spaces where scouts are more vulnerable balances that advange. Pretty nice map, I gotta say.
And then there’s Dustbowl. In spite of the slight imbalance, it’s brilliant, case closed. Along the same lines, Goldrush is also incredibly fun, despite the immense defensive advantage.
But 2fort is the most inherently flawed map that Valve has released. Among an otherwise excellent repertoire of official maps, 2fort is the odd one out. The black sheep. The map I wish never existed. Yes, 2fort absolutely sucks. It sucks worse than a crappy custom map. And here’s why. In no particular order, these are my top five reasons why you should stop playing 2fort NOW and move on to better maps. You don’t agree with me? You think I’m a goddamn prick? Sound off in the comments!
Weighted Companion Snipers
madlep has ranted before against these useless fools who do little more than waste server bandwidth. 2fort is an amazingly sucky map for snipers. The only good place to snipe from is the exposed balcony. From there, just about the only place a sniper can get a good, clear shot is the opposing balcony, and here’s proof! (It’s normally too dangerous to look down at the lower base exit, because of the danger of countersniping from the opposite balcony). The giant covering over the bridge makes it impossible to easily snipe classes on the bridge. Snipers on the map inevitably get involved in unproductive, boring, and useless sniper duels. Of course, the covering over the bridge isn’t ALL bad–it does allow scouts a shortcut to the intel room. But if you want a shortcut to the intel room, how hard would it be to have a staircase up from ground level straight to the sniper deck? That happens to be my next complaint.
The Bridge
Let’s admit that it can be tricky to double-jump from the bridge covering onto the opposite sniper deck. If you do miss the rather fickle double-jump then you’ll have to tramp through extra corridors (as if 2fort doesn’t have enough of corridors to tramp through!). There’ll undoubtedly be sentries to negotiate as you run up the stairs in the fort’s courtyard. Combined with a lack of any sort of health pack in this area, there’s a good chance that you’ll get damaged pretty badly without hope of recovery. Of course, it blocks a clear shot for snipers–effectively neutering the otherwise deadly class’s effectiveness. If you are unlucky enough to be knocked off the top off the bridge (possibly by an explosion – soldiers love spamming rockets at the top of the bridge), then you’ll have to deal with something even more tedious. If the idea is to offer a shortcut to the intel through the sniper deck, there are much better ways to do that (example: staircase up to the sniper deck or, barring that, a pile of debris on the side that allows scouts to climb up by means of double jumping). For instance, on the last stage, last cap of Goldrush there’s a small pile of debris on the side of the sniper deck that I often use when playing spy to climb up and backstab snipers. Since it doesn’t limit the attacking effectiveness of snipers but increases their vulnerability to spies (the sniper deck is otherwise inaccessible), it’s a good design element.
Above: a watery hell. Stolen from tf2wiki.
The water and sewers
The fact that I have a key bound to kill myself speaks to just how freaking boring this map becomes when you fall in the water. Unless you’re a soldier or a demoman with a reasonable amount of health, it’s impossible to jump out of the water and back onto the bridge area. You’re instead left with a pretty terrible choice. You can negotiate 300 miles of long, straight sewers and surface in the enemy base, or you can negotiate 300 miles of long, straight sewers and surface in the relative safety of your own base. (That’s assuming that an enemy engineer hasn’t built a sentry in your sewers, which is surprisingly common). Attempting to push into the enemy base from this clearly disadvantageous position is often suicidal. Fun maps have fast-paced gameplay and concentrated action. This happens to be my chief complaint against CTF maps in general- unlike CP maps, where all the action is intensely concentrated on 1 or 2 control points, the action on CTF maps is spread out sparsely all over the map like butter spread too thin.
The basement
So you’ve passed the gauntlet of snipers, sentries, and other trash that litters the dirty corridors of 2fort. But your trip isn’t over yet. Now you have to tramp through more long, boring corridors. As if there aren’t enough of those already! And it doesn’t even stop there. Looks like there are more sentries down in here! If you’re a scout, this is unbelievably frustrating–after a minute of dodging idiots, you get nailed right next to your goal.
And even if you manage to successfully pick up the enemy intelligence, getting out of the basement is just as boring. A single demoman can defend the intel without any problems. Out of the two exits from the intel room, one is a deathtrap and the other one takes you past the enemy courtyard. Let’s admit that teamwork really lacks on this map. Your average player considers this map as a giant deathmatch. It’s usually not worth the trouble of trying multiple times to capture the intel and dying every time when one can simply kill the enemy and retain one’s dignity. As a result, intel room defense rarely gets cleared. Even spies, who can easily kill sentries, pretty much suck overall down in the intel room. They’re so vulnerable, and without their ability to disguise and cloak, they rarely make it out of the enemy base alive.
And, of course, pity the engineer!
Engineering here is BORING
While sentries are common on 2fort, using them for defense is terribly boring. Unlike CP and PL (payload) maps, where the action is focused on a certain point, 2fort’s battles occur all over the place. On CP and PL maps, an engineer building close to the CP or the cart can expect a steady stream of n00bs to kill. On most locations on 2fort, it’s hard to guarantee whether anyone will come by your sentry. And it seems like if anyone comes across your sentry, it’s a spy. One of the few places where you can expect lots of kills is the bridge, but attempting to build there is hard, what with the hordes of soldiers dropping down from the battlement and spamming rockets at the opposite side. While I do consider engineer to be the dullest class out of the nine, I can still have a decent time on a good map.
But, to be frank, ctf_2fort isn’t one of them good maps. TF2’s specialty is fast-paced, intense, concentrated gameplay, and 2fort has barely anything to offer in that deparment. Forcing people to walk extra distances just to get health, ammo, or the intel is bad design philosophy. Walking through 2fort’s massive network of corridors takes a long time, and the map’s design practically forces you to walk.
So people, I don’t understand how you guys can be so neurotic. 2fort is TF2 at its worse, yet it still manages to survive.
But you won’t be seeing me around. I’ll be on Goldrush if you want me.
Stumble it!
General Balls responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 8:23 am #
mks^ responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 8:23 am #
fuckin agreed.
waebi responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 8:29 am #
2fort doesnt suck, the way it is played sucks.
sQUEAKYfOAMpEANUT responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 9:16 am #
I’m going back in time to erase all evidence of 2fort being programmed at the source, in TFC. Who’s with me?
supremesonic responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 9:20 am #
Blimey, epic rant is epic. I agree with all of it, though… 2Fort is far and away the weakest official map of the bunch.
My key problem with it is the choke point that is right outside the most popular spawn by the courtyard – If you want to get to the enemy intel, you HAVE to pass through or very near here. And the whole enemy team is spawning there, and engineers have a field day with easy-to-reach metal. Even if you do survive, you’ve got a long trek back for health or ammo (As you mention) and it starts again.
And what is it with the endless long corridors? Horrible design choice.
Pinko responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 9:57 am #
I’ve tried to think of ways to fix 2fort, but the only way two ways I can even POSSIBLY think of getting people to be less turtle-y and more push forward-y is 1. to make some new hybrid of CP and CTF.
Here’s a little diagram.
INTEL ROOM || BATTLEMENTS|| BRIDGE|| BATTLEMENTS|| INTEL ROOM
Put a control point in the middle. Right in the middle. On the bridge. No, no, not BELOW the bridge. ON the bridge.
Make whoever has that CP spawn faster. As an incentive for having it.
That way people will feel actually feel compelled to do something.
Or 2. make an object in the enemies base that requires TONS of damage to destroy, like 5 sets of 8 stickies type of damage, but it either opens a new pathway in to the enemy base or it makes spawning faster or something. Put it next to the intel room so people can get the intel as well.
Otherwise, 2fort SUCKS.
"KoreRat" responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 11:54 am #
When I first started playing TF2 I was confused by the game type of the Control Point Maps. But then I found this map called 2fort, and it was a ctf, I knew ctf from my Quake 2 days. So I started playing that. I didn’t really like it too much, but it was a game type I knew.
Then a few months before the Medic update I decided that i should really learn the whole Control Point thing. Enter Dustbowl, Dustbowl, Dustbowl. After a week of total confusion… Hoorah!
Then came Gold Rush and the Pay Load maps. Pay Load is where I hang now, but sometimes I hit up a Control Point, but never do I look back at 2fort and the ctf.
*CTF is fine in it’s own right, just 2fort kinda kills it. And I never played ctf_well, so I don’t know if that’s any good.
Xeno responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 12:04 pm #
I agree. 2fort is sickening, I have friends who claim it’s the best map but really – there is nothing worthwhile to do when the majority of pubbers are content to snipe, engi turtle or NOTHING.
Brilliant rant. I really don’t understand how 2fort is the 2nd most played map according to tf2 stats. (Or it was last time I checked). It just makes no sense.
Himmelstoss responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 12:36 pm #
I expected more people to… well, disagree. I thought 2fort was really popular… O_O
Good to know that so many people agree with me on this
Pad See Ew responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 12:38 pm #
I love 2fort beyond reason. Actually, the ctf maps are the only ones I can tolerate these days.
b4dboyz- responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 1:36 pm #
I do love a good ctf map, for example, mach4 and turbine. 2fort is boring, poorly planned out, and if one team is slightly better than the other, the good team can just spawn camp a whole team until an uber i unleashed.
b4dboyz- responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 1:37 pm #
is* unleashed
Loafaries responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 1:39 pm #
While 2fort isn’t exactly my favorite map, I wouldn’t say it needs to be burnt to the ground. It’s fun if you’re playing with the right people. Which means staying off 24/7 2fort servers and avoiding clan matches. Also, a daily intake of 2fort is detrimental to anyone’s health. When the splash page shows up saying “You’re on your way to… 2fort”, hit that magical cancel button.
Everything in moderation.
two40 responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 3:03 pm #
i think you fail. 2fort is a decent map just like the ones you favour. they’re all good maps
vornn responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 4:01 pm #
I remember the good old days, 2fort, on TF (that’s the quake mod, not TFC).
Many a hour was spent scouting round that map, dropping grens and caltrops.
those were the days.
The best 2fort version was for UTF (I think) still square and clunkly.
Nice rant.
Ireshine responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 4:40 pm #
I find 2fort very boring, I only play as 3 classic on this map engineer,scout and spy.
I play as the scout and try rush through the map cuz its really that boring.
Engi to stop anyone trying to do the same thing as I do with the scout.
spy, when I cant get pass the sentries as the scout.
the only reason I would join a 24/7 2fort server is for achievements and I run around like a mad thing.
Shawn Poulsen responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 4:46 pm #
I agree wholeheartedly.
However, I’d like to share a little story that might shed some light on how to make 2fort better.
I decided to finally try to get the water based pyro achievements. I didn’t really feel like farming them, but intentionally putting myself in a position where there was a chance to get them would be ok. So, this meant Well or 2Fort. I couldn’t find a Well server…
At the end of one game, the timer ran out with both sets of inteligence in play. And so overtime started. And something magical happened…
Suddenly, *everyone* cared about the intel – if both sets of intel ever went back home, the game would end! There were no less than 3 caps during this overtime period, and it was the most directed and most *fun* few minutes I’ve ever had on 2fort.
Now, I don’t know how to regularly cause this sort of thing – the situation I just detailed was pretty unusual – but I feel it shows what the biggest problem with 2fort is: its too easy to just ignore the objective.
Junior responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 4:59 pm #
While I agree with the majority of your points, I still enjoy the freedom 2fort brings. There aren’t any other game types that let you simply play as your class, you’re always funneled towards an objective.
Sadly though, as you’ve pointed out, this tends to ruin any of the matches there, but it’s a simple solution.
Never stick around for 2fort if you weren’t really enjoying the server.
Never ever join a 24/7 2fort server.
Never ever ever join a 24/7 instaspawn server, seriously. Your skills will devolve minutes after arriving.
Notger responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 6:42 pm #
While 2Fort can be fun when played with a good team (clan match or 12-slot-server), I wholeheartedly agree with you for the most part.
They way it is now, 2Fort is the gathering basin of all that players that want to play TF2-Deathmatch. Sure, TF2 ain’t a good Deathmatch game but hey, if it is their trade … go on. At least we now have a place where all the weirdos are known to be. Like a mental sanitary: Stick them in and we are safe.
Off to Fastlane, the best map around.
=][= responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 7:40 pm #
You want some cheese to go with that whine?
2fort is one of the best maps there is.
Every single point you made just echoes of you sucking at the game.
Every single thing you said is the opposite of the truth if you’re even half competent.
I’m REALLY not trying to be an ass or anything but that is honestly what I got from reading that and my experiences on 2fort.
Teamwork is usually more intense and well coordinated on my 2fort servers than anywhere.
Breaking intel room defenses is possible as a spy or scout with minimal thought and a little skill even if it’s haunted by a demoman and an engineer simultaneously.
It’s simple to mount a highly effective attack from the sewers if you get any 4 people of different classes down there at once (aside from the spy and sniper).
If you’re a halfway creative engineer you can cause all manner of mayhem with your sentry placement. 2fort is MADE for engineers. 3 engineers can totally lock down the map unless the enemy team coordinates a concentrated attack.
Honestly 2fort is one of the few maps where all 9 classes are always equally viable choices.
Then I suppose there’s the off chance that you play the console version of TF2, but then I KNOW you suck because there’s a total of like 7 good players on the console version.
Stu Smith responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 8:18 pm #
Perhaps one reason 2Fort isn’t so fun is that it doesn’t support fire-and-motion gameplay? Essentially, to move forward in a real battle, you get some of your squad to lay down covering fire (so the enemy can’t move), while some move forward to establish a new defensive position. And repeat. In TF2, that’s where the control points come in.
2Fort doesn’t have any concept of a forward defensive position (unless you have great teamwork and can get a sentry up somewhere in the enemy base), so it just turns into a WWI two-opposing-trenches-and-a-massive-no-man’s-land situation. In otherwords, boring stalemate.
(As an aside, I wonder if scouts could optionally become a non-combat class to support fire-and-motion gameplay – imagine if you could choose to have no weapons as scout, but even faster movement and CP capping? Heavy etc lays down suppressing fire, while a couple of scouts cap in 6x speed. Just an idea.)
clubtheseals responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 9:18 pm #
I don’t hate 2Fort, but if it isn’t instaspawn 2Fort, the matches go on forever.
supremesonic responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 9:32 pm #
To that smiley face bitching dude three posts up:
I don’t normally feed trolls, but hello contradictory statement: You say 2Fort is made for Engineers who can practically lock down the map, but then say every class is good?
Also, saying “I’m not trying to be an ass…” in unison with “You suck” just shows you ARE trying to be an ass.
Just sayin’. Then again, I might just be bitter about your console comment.
LlamaFarmer responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 10:03 pm #
2fort Instant Respawn 32man server = retarded
2fort 8v8 10s Respawn Server = fun and challanging
Instant respawn is the problem. impatient noobs ftl.
BigJugs69 responded on 08 Aug 2008 at 11:04 pm #
Agreed.
8v8 or 12v12 and 10s respawn is certainly better, but it’s still a poorly designed map.
Pinko responded on 09 Aug 2008 at 1:40 am #
Imagine a 2fort Instant Respawn 32 man Birthday mod All Crits server with class caps on everything but engineer.
D:
Misanthrope responded on 09 Aug 2008 at 2:28 am #
If you’re stuck in an endless stalemate on 2Fort you have a bad team. Sorry.
Himmelstoss responded on 09 Aug 2008 at 3:28 am #
@ =][=
If you manage to break intel room defenses when there’s a demoman, an engineer, and a level 3 sentry in there (especially if you’re a scout)… drop me a line. You’re either hacking or playing against people who just figured out that WASD moves you around. Taking out level 3 sentries as scout is nigh impossible. (It’s possible if you edge the sentry or circle strafe it, but there’s a demoman hanging around to kill you in this scenario).
Rain responded on 09 Aug 2008 at 3:38 am #
Most of the problems you described are caused by instaspawn. Useless sniper battles do not occur if you have to wait 15 seconds every time you get raped by a better sniper. You switch class and try to live longer (usually means being more productive).
Most of your rants are against the whole idea of TF2. Attacking on your own as a scout, spy or whatever is not really playing as a team now is it. Ending up on your own in the sewers = same story. Small tactical teams containing 3 or 4 players can easily temporarily dominate enemy base to capture the flag/intel. A team like demo/medic/soldier and perhaps a scout. Just don’t play on instaspawn servers.
Wormbrain responded on 09 Aug 2008 at 5:07 am #
Hay! I made that poster! You can see the rest here.. Orange Box Motivational Posters*
* I’ll be the first to admit they’re pretty terrible, but whatever. 2fort stills sucks.
Himmelstoss responded on 09 Aug 2008 at 7:36 am #
Thanks a ton Wormbrain! (no, not literally!).
RJ-Pilot responded on 09 Aug 2008 at 10:04 am #
I like 2Fort. It gives me a chance to act like a complete spanner every once in a while by finding the stupidest/most unlikely places to sniper from. The best ones being;
1) In the underwater part between bases, where you can hit the other teams sniper.
2) from their intelligence room (lol)
3) from the opposing team’s sniper deck (all hail the point-blank scoped headshot) I had an opposing sniper ragequit once purely because I kept sneaking up onto their deck and headshotting them pointblank.
Tim responded on 09 Aug 2008 at 12:59 pm #
You hit the nail square on the head, 2fort has always been, is, and always will be a terrible map.
Imran responded on 09 Aug 2008 at 9:11 pm #
2fort doesn’t suck, you do.
:p
Loving 2fort since 2002 <3
clubtheseals responded on 09 Aug 2008 at 9:17 pm #
It’s ok guys, we all know Dustbowl curb stomps 2Fort anyway.
Rubiximus responded on 10 Aug 2008 at 1:33 am #
While I agree with everything you said, I still like the map. I don’t know why, but for some reason I enjoy playing it occasionally. (Admittedly said occasions are rather rare and only last about a single round, but they do exist.)
Wormbrain responded on 10 Aug 2008 at 4:28 am #
I’ll admit, while I’m waiting for a slot to open on the clan server sometimes I’ll jump on an instaspawn 2fort server as a pyro. Nothing like endlessly hurling yourself at the enemy over those 2fort battlements.
Ranx responded on 10 Aug 2008 at 8:15 am #
These points can be made about nearly any CTF map.
Organize pushes, wait for companions to venture out, and don’t turtle.
Also don’t play Ctf maps on 32 person servers. But 32 person servers is a whole ‘nother issue.
Dominare responded on 10 Aug 2008 at 11:51 am #
You seem to have neatly sidestepped the fact that soldiers (and demos) can get to the intel without ever going through the courtyard. As in a previous comment, one player by themselves who finds himself in the enemy intel room shouldn’t *expect* to be able to get out alone. If you’re trying to solo cap, you’re doing it wrong.
JC responded on 12 Aug 2008 at 11:13 am #
First week(s) playing 2fort was great; but getting used to the incredible CP maps (and its seriously much better than most other games did it, at least imo) I dont play 2fort much anymore. I feel constrained; it needs more walkways and such to the sides, more ground between the two bases I guess; but I suppose ValvE designed it this way so hey.
So I agree mostly, although as a sniper on 2fort i’ve layed down a lot of covering fire for the folks below and next to me (jumping down the nest). without our snipers there, it’d be a big mess.
Also, if there’s no snipers there, who’s gonna watch the nest? Or more rather , ensure the enemy snipers don’t have a field day picking off everyone that shows their head out of the base.
So I’d say snipers aren’t as much useless as you’d say; its actually a decent way to test sniping skills on other snipers.
In short: Map is constrained, but while agreed with most, I dont agree as much about the snipers.
Tip to ValvE: Maybe make the map bigger, with more walkways and methods to reach both bases, etc.
- JC
skyeslipstream responded on 14 Aug 2008 at 6:57 am #
In terms of level design, 2Fort fails in so many ways. The pace of the action, the space of the area and the race for the intel are just generally either unsatisfactory or simply non-existent. I’ll give it credit, some parts of the map are alright (the bridge has a roof which is important to Scouts and Snipers and the courtyard areas are tactically correct), but otherwise it’s one grand mess.
As for the intel… well, reaching the basement is hard in itself, but getting out is even harder. One way leads up a spiral staircase of death – usually from a Pyro or Demoman – and one leads up to an open area where the entire team will be waiting for you.
Maybe this stalemate nature plagues all Capture the Flag maps in the delicate balance of having good defensive bases while making them penetratable enough for the other team to succeed should the defending team be unaware or unprepared.
Or maybe it’s just 2Fort being 2Fort; one big mess of a map.
xFlashx responded on 15 Aug 2008 at 5:48 pm #
Well to wish it never existed would have to take you wayyyy back, through lots of games as others have mentioned…. I would bet many at valve feel as you do… but when the game was released, they had to have 2fort… it is classic…
I think it should stay for that reason, lots of people still have fun on it, i know I do, but only on very specific servers… i’ll jump around various 24/7 2fort servers looking for a good battle raging.
But you make some good points, they should fix it, it isn’t a great map, snipers suck etc… but its classic…
Moreto responded on 17 Aug 2008 at 7:35 pm #
I find that 2fort NEEDS more teamwork than anything because its the WWII trench style if you push on your own you end up swiss cheese but with others you can do better.
A team of a heavy medic and solder or demo can do wonders, even a team effort of a spy going on a sapping spree followed by a heavy works well.
The insta-spawn makes teamwork needed even more because if that pro spy kills half their team in a normal game you have a 15 second free space to go forward and get the intel, you probably could take out a entire team by doing that well.
But yes 2fort does end in draws often but more often than not you have a horrible team and i do not deny the snipers sucking on 2fort, well if there was no snipers it would probably be a better match.
I think turbine is a worse map though:
-Sniper decks easy to get to
-Even larger no mans land
-Those air ducts
-Bases in air ducts
First time i played it i was met with those bases in the ducts i think thats even worse design there because theres a duct that drops right to the intel, so easy to get a whole bunch of guys teled there spy jumps down and saps or something and your intel is gone into no mans land.
Well thats all ^_^
Jesus responded on 17 Oct 2008 at 4:48 am #
Fully agreed, 2fort is a failland!!
Hardly you find a server with a decent amound of players who actually play with teamplay in mind and 2fort requires a perfect teamplay for success, so it fails for the average public server. To expect teamwork from those braindead jackass rambos called teammates is laughable.
The layout of 2fort is so bad, claustrophobically small overall, so many narrow corridors, you have to pass the spawnroom(!) to get to the intel, just camp there and no one can get even close to the intel. The OP already told us why 2fort sucks so badly. But my conclusion is: 2Fort is a deathmatch cesspool for the bad/average TF2 player, senseless fraging, the intel hided like a treasure in Indiana Jones, well it just sucks..
The option, we smart players have is, leave 2fort for good to the braindead jackass rambos who W+M1ing their way through this terrible designed map and go for a better map and have fun.
@Moreto
Turbine is WAY better than 2fort, that’s also why the competetive scene plays turbine instead of the failland 2fort.
Turbine has so much more to offer:
- a big middle area, where most classes can use their strength
- An easy accessable, but also good defendable intelroom
Both where 2fort fails miserably.
I hope Valve changes 2fort someday and adds some more routes to make the gameplay more interesting. But i quess they leave it that way, because so many “casual braindead jackass W+M1 deathmatchers” love this map for it’s easy way to get frags without the annoying responsibility to use teamplay.
But for the smart players who are interesting in interesting teamplay oriented gameplay are in thw WRONG place on 2fort!
Sam responded on 20 Oct 2008 at 6:49 pm #
2Fort was the first level i played on TF2, and of course i enjoyed it. Now i only find the courage to stay sane and play 2fort is when i feel like spying. Even then the whole spy philosophy of backstab, sap and then GTFO of there doesn’t work as there are only 3 medipacks per fort. I think it is just a map dedicated to keep CS:S awpfags happy.
General Goose responded on 18 Dec 2008 at 4:13 am #
Meh, 2fort’s okay if your team and the enemy team play properly.
But, that isn’t encouraged by the map. I think that is 2fort’s fatal flaw.
alex responded on 05 Jan 2009 at 8:55 pm #
i learned to play on 2fort as well, and nedless to say, it has probably crippled my tf2 ‘life’. It needs more goddamn choke-points, other than the one that is easy to camp, which then prevents any intel-caps.
False Player Counts | ubercharged.net responded on 18 Jan 2009 at 4:00 pm #
[...] 2fort combat” and it’s the only server right now having 31/32 players! Now, you probably don’t like 2fort for a bunch of reasons. However, the map layout allows you to go Pyro and burn at least three [...]
Steam Patch from the Future | ubercharged.net responded on 04 Feb 2009 at 9:04 am #
[...] “ctf_2fort is now removed from the default map list. Servers which want to use this map will have to edit their maplist. Despite being a classic, its flawed design can not be supported by Valve directly anymore if we wish to keep our high standart for map creation” At this moment all of ubercharged.net shouts from joy and happiness. World peace has finally been ac… [...]
Mr.FYI.SPY responded on 15 Mar 2009 at 7:30 am #
Yeh every game i have gone in on 2Fort is a stalemate, and it has engineers dominating the courtyards on both sides making an attaempt to get the intel impossible.
God of Pie responded on 27 Mar 2009 at 7:30 pm #
Question; Would 2Fort work as a 2-way 5-point CP map? You could have one on the bridge, one in that big square room with the ramp going around it, one in the intel room. It could work, but you’d have to move the spawns.
haro responded on 05 Apr 2009 at 12:01 pm #
While I think the CP version of 2fort would be an improvement, I dont think there is much saving this map.
I play tf2 every once in a while, and am able to tolerate it, but if you compare it to dustbowl, or moreover gravel pit, its definitely not as good. It’s hardly balanced for most classes, I think its a bit too easy for pyros unless they fall off the bridge, in which case they deserve to die.
Worst thing though is how easy it is to defend with sentries. Sentries can be placed in spots where no class can really get around them (save for spies) and the only class that is usually any help is the demoman. Now, of course, an uber is often the cure for this ailment, and this is far easier on small games, but when you are on a pub (which, sadly, I usually am) its hard to find good medics and coordinate.
But what, its not like people actually play 2fort to get ctf most of the time. More like a team deathmatch that goes on for hours.
TT responded on 27 Apr 2009 at 2:34 am #
2fort is just another map. If you have a certain preference for a style of game that isn’t optimal on 2fort then you’re going to hate it. Exactly why I dislike specific maps. If 2fort is that bad then why are there many 24/7 2fort servers running at all times? Because there are that many retarded noobz playing the game that need a home? If that’s true, then you’re playing the same game as they are. Trust me, playing on a map other than 2fort does not elevate you to genius. Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is that your opinion is great. My opinion is that because of all the suckyness that you talked about, 2fort as a map is challenging. You don’t just run and shoot, capture point, move on. You MUST coordinate with your team to get something done. In the meantime, you can do 1 on 1 revenge/domination sub-battles against your class enemy on the other team.
Big Boss (Sean Connery) responded on 28 Apr 2009 at 5:59 am #
The only time I ever enjoy a 2fort map is when I do that “jointeam unassigned” intel glitch.
Mach4, and Turbine are much better.
Wes responded on 09 May 2009 at 12:54 pm #
*Facepalm* People, 2Fort has less stalemates than most other-ALL-CTF_ maps; and even CP_ maps. It is the 3rd least stalemate’d map of all officials. Still think that’s high stalemate ratings? Play some granary for awhile.
fishrule responded on 24 May 2009 at 4:16 pm #
I agree, 2fort is an absolutely terrible map. I wish it would just explode and die, along with the 24/7 servers dedicated to it.
A wizard... responded on 05 Jun 2009 at 9:56 am #
I disagree with everything in the article. Snipers kill bridge-jumping scouts, saving many lives and briefcases. The water is commonly an advantage to me, because the snipers do such a good job stopping me on the bridge, so I use the sewer. Engineer is my second most common class played on 2fort, because of the fact that scouts continously pour into your base, providing kills, and MORE kills. Seriously, as soon as I place a sentry I near the top of scoreboards, because so many people run to my sentry. It’s spies that DON’T go to sentries.
sir applebook responded on 19 Jul 2009 at 2:50 pm #
The painful truth, Himmel, is that you are a mediocre player. I never rage-quit, and even though I play soldier most of the time, I have few problems avoiding great snipers (after a few initial headshots).
Stalemates can happen on ANY CTF map if both teams turtle.
All of your other points are invalid because they can easily be contradicted by decent players.
Being an offensive engie in 2Fort is fun if you’re actually good. Planting surprise SGs in the dreaded waters is a nice way to finish off flaming enemies.
Anyway, just learn to be a better player, stop raging on instant respawn servers, and quit whining about something being terrible just because you can’t handle the truth.
Hehe.
eldrake responded on 03 Aug 2009 at 11:16 pm #
2fort also teaches new players things like these.
Rushing into a room of sentries, suicide rushing, W+M1ing, sniping snipers, and so further on.
That’s most players have absolutely no idea that the uberheavy can’t take out the three sentries pushing him back alone. They play on a stalemate map, and is taught absolutely nothing useful.
2fort embraces Weighted Companion Snipers. 2fort is a terrible map, and should be removed, along with Junction. You know there’s something wrong with a map if it teaches players not to use teamwork, in a game based around teamwork.
And now I know that 2fort fanboys is now banging on their keyboards hard, calling me a Fag, a Emo, and more “creative” insults.
eldrake responded on 03 Aug 2009 at 11:26 pm #
Oh yeah, I forgot something.
Turbine kicks 2fort’s ass because he’s awesome and cool.
uber1337 kitten responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 9:08 am #
Has anyone downloaded HvC_Terr’s 2fort_revamp from the TF2 Steam Forums? It’s surprisingly good- it resolves all the issues in Aidsfort- and there’s a hell of a lot.
Also, CTF being the worst gametype of the bunch? Hello, TC.
uber1337 kitten responded on 14 Aug 2009 at 9:13 am #
Oh, and further proof of the failure of 2fort is that it could be over in seconds. It’s boring as it is, but unless someone plays Engie you’ll be pwnd by a scout rush- in which case it’s EVEN MORE GODDAMN BORING
xplosivkid responded on 18 Aug 2009 at 3:01 am #
In some cases however 2fort can be a fun and cool map to pl,ay, if your on a 6v6 competition team the battles can be really intence. or if you are just begining to play its a decent intro map.
jockmo42 responded on 27 Aug 2009 at 6:56 pm #
Some people aren’t really in to the game because they want to win, some just like to mess around. 2Fort is a stalemate because both teams can easily set up nigh-insurmountable obstacles for the other. Unless one team is decently organized, (which has happened once on 2fort for me, and I’ve played since beta) you’re set for a giant death match that will never really end.
While this kind of thing was not the original intent of the developers, and is frowned on by many members of the community, you can’t deny the mindless charm of just killing people for half an hour or so.
2Fort is a map that I sometimes play, but I’m not a serious player. My point here is that not all people are competitive. Massive stalemates are fine, as long as they can kill someone. An apparently large chunk of TF2 players are fine with this kind of gameplay.
2Fort might be absolutely retarded, but it can be fun for a bit.
divinebooger responded on 08 Sep 2009 at 11:56 am #
I do agree that its boring as hell to be an engie here and the sniper balcony is retarded, but I disagree with the spy part. It is fairly simple to be a spy and get across to the sniper balcony and even spawn camp. I think it is based on the number of player you have in the map. A 16 v 16 server would be like the giant deathmatch with disorganized noobs. I prefer to play in a 6 v 6 map where at least the players have a mic.
Ro responded on 16 Sep 2009 at 3:47 am #
My god, put your noses up higher why don’t you, maybe then you won’t smell the elitism dribbling from your mouths. It’s just another map, the fact it’s mere existence seems to offend some of you in some unexplainable way is laughable.
Chuckg responded on 21 Sep 2009 at 7:19 am #
What do you mean you’ve never seen intel room defenses destroyed on 2fort?
I’ve seen one spy and one pyro totally clean out a double engy emplacement in the hayloft. I’ve seen two spies break a front door sentry nest. And I’ve seen practically half of one team turtled up in the intel room, with multiple sentries, get positively wrecked by one incoming uber.
2fort is a map where you simply cannot get anything done /by yourself/ unless you’re playing total noobs. But a well-coordinated opposing team playing a bunch of individuals can steamroller them for 3 caps inside of 2 minutes. Seen it done.
Keillor responded on 27 Oct 2009 at 8:33 pm #
I don’t know if it’s just me but I love 2fort. I really think it’s all a matter of opinion though. I’ve played most of the other maps quite a bit and meddled a little in tournament-style play but I always end up back on 2fort. You don’t have to be a “twitch gamer” to enjoy a seemingly endless round of 2fort and that’s what I think the appeal is.
chipbuster responded on 03 Dec 2009 at 4:44 pm #
The one and only problem I have with 2fort is how you need an entire assault group to clear out the enemy. I’ve actually had it happen to me where we went into their courtyard, used our first uber to blow their sentries, went down, used our second uber to blow the intel room’s sentries and defenders, went back up, used a third uber along the way to kill the hordes (that had just respawned from our intel room spree), only to come out into the courtyard to find two level 3 sentries greeting us.
Other than that, turtles are pretty easy to kill, just have to know how. Also, 2fort is a great map for learning the basics; but if you want to move on to any sort of decent level play, you’re going to have to learn how to survive when you’re not always 30 seconds from a spawn cabinet.
Someguyfromcrowd responded on 16 Jan 2010 at 3:08 pm #
A game resulting in 1-0 is rare, and after that one team rolls the other because they immediately take control of the enemy intel room with sentries and teleporters.
It’s an interesting map, but too spammy and too constrictive.