It’s Time to Update the Updates
While we all love the fact that Valve releases updates for TF2, almost none of us love the resulting mob of achievement grinders. I can see why you would want to go on a server and do nothing but quickly earn these achievements – after all, getting all of them the legitimate way would take too long, and you want to try these new weapons now. Perfectly understandable.
But then there’s the other group – the haters of achievement grinders. The people who mercilessly bash on those who farm for achievements yet ignore the fact that Valve is the one who put them in a situation that would make them want to farm instead of earn. However, I can also understand these people to some degree because if, by chance, they did earn the achievements the right and fair way, they feel their accomplishments aren’t taken seriously by fellow players. I’ll explain: imagine if you trained for years and years and put huge amounts of effort into working out, but got beaten in a race by the guy who started taking steroids a couple weeks ago. What happened to all your hard work? Doesn’t it count for anything? It’s the same thing, more or less, when people who earned achievements legitimately see others carrying new weapons obtained through farming.
Either way, the point we can clearly see here is that there are some serious flaws with the way Valve wants us to earn new weapons. But now what – do we sit here and whine about it like we have been? No, today I’d like to brainstorm ideas with you that could potentially fix this problem. Are they all perfect? As you’ll see, no. But it’s the fact that we’re trying to find ways to improve the updates that’s important. Comment about them all you want – and feel free to offer your own solutions as well.
Solution 1.
Screw earning the weapons. Just give them to us from the get-go.
What about the achievements? They’re still there for the added replay value, but earning them is for fun only – they have no game-changing impact.
Pros of this solution: The number of achievement grinders will be greatly reduced, since there isn’t a very big reason to get them anymore.
Cons of this solution: Hardcore players want something to work towards. The satisfying feeling of earning the achievements through time and effort is gone if they’re just handed to you. If the new weapons are stronger than the old ones, then there won’t be any reason at all to go back to the old weapons (however, this can be fixed by some good weapon balancing on Valve’s part).
Solution 2.
The achievements can only be earned on selected servers run by Valve workers (or at least people Valve gives the rights to).
What about the achievements? They’re still the way you unlock new weapons, but can only be earned on the selected servers, so there might not be as many achievements to earn in the hope that people will quickly cycle through the servers.
Pros of this solution: Achievements can’t be earned on private servers that do nothing but farm for them. Valve workers will make sure that games run smoothly on the selected servers, so the achievements will almost always be earned through fair play.
Cons of this solution: Valve will have a hard time setting up these servers and finding people trustworthy enough to manage them (after all, the administrators can’t all be employees). Eventually someone will find a hack that allows any server to earn achievements. The selected servers will always be packed.
Solution 3.
Same idea as Solution 2, but instead of achievements only being able to be earned on certain servers, they can only be earned on the official maps.
What about the achievements? They remain the way to earn new weapons, but they’ll be harder to obtain on the official maps.
Pros of this solution: Maps like “Achievement Box” will be rendered useless. Valve won’t have to worry about finding people to run selected servers. Many more people will have access to earning achievements, but they won’t have access to an extremely cheap environment to do so.
Cons of this solution: The maps may be different, but the grinding won’t be. People will still set up servers that do nothing but farm achievements, only now they’ll be limited to a few maps – not something that will stop them. The achievement grinding epidemic will only be prolonged due to the official map’s unfriendly layout for the grinders’ purposes.
Solution 4.
Weapons can only be earned in unique single-player stages Valve creates. Think something like “win the bot battle”, or “take out the target”.
What about the achievements? Only for fun and replay value – the new weapons are earned through completing these levels.
Pros of this solution: Achievement grinders will almost disappear completely since weapons aren’t earned in multiplayer at all. Hardcore players will feel satisfied since they need to earn the weapons. TF2 will get a single-player mode!
Cons of this solution: Yeah right. As if Valve wants to spend time developing these stages, or an AI system for the computer-controlled players. You think they take too long with the updates now? It’ll be years before they finish them if this is the course they take.
Solution 5.
Leave everything the way it is. I mean, people still have fun with the game, right?
What about the achievements? Fully grindable.
Pros of this solution: Valve doesn’t have any extra work to do. Yay for them! Maybe now they’ll have time to finish Episode 3…
Cons of this solution: Achievement farming becomes a new favorite pastime, annoying everyone. The structure of TF2 wobbles every time a new update comes around.
Conclusion
As you can see, there is plenty of room for more potential solutions. Please leave a comment with your opinions and ideas.
Stumble it!
Stefan responded on 25 Jul 2008 at 8:25 pm #
My solution:
Leave everything as it is. But you can unlock a weapon by picking one up But only if you killed that guy and he dropped that unlocked weapon.
ErikG responded on 25 Jul 2008 at 8:32 pm #
I am all for solution 1.
The general, pre-medic achievements were great. I actually had fun with these.
I never, not once, aimed for them. I got those of them I have through normal game play without aiming for them, so it was always a surprise when I got one.
No pressure to get the achievements == pleasant surprise when you get them.
That feels so much better than aiming for them in normal play. At least in my eyes I feel better about achievements when they come as a surprise, than if I aim for them in normal play. Aiming for them in normal play still feels more rewarding than farming them, though. Just not as nice when they come as a surprise.
LatinoGeek responded on 25 Jul 2008 at 8:53 pm #
I’m kind of torn. There were medic achievements that I had to grind/ hit up an achievement to get. For the Pyro achievements, I am avoiding this and trying to earn them through regular gameplay. If you’re the type that is used to instant gratification, then the later approach will not suffice. (btw, I’m up to 19)
LatinoGeek responded on 25 Jul 2008 at 8:58 pm #
If you’re type that doesn’t have many online friends who game (like me) then some of the achievements will simply be impossible to obtain through regular game play.
Notger responded on 25 Jul 2008 at 9:29 pm #
Only play on a server with class limits and active admins. Problem solved.
(You know, there is a reason, that the favourites-tab exists.)
Anonymous responded on 26 Jul 2008 at 3:17 am #
I don’t see how achievement farming annoys everyone, if the farmers just do what they want in their own servers, the non farmers still have plenty of servers to play on. Also, I justify farming to the point of what you have already achieved prior to the updates.
Lawlingbawl responded on 26 Jul 2008 at 5:58 am #
Well, I was going to submit to madlep my idea of what they should do with the achievements.
Make them invisible for the first couple of weeks. The only clue is you have to be a good heavy. Maybe even disable the achievements if there are over 2…maybe 3 of that class on that server. This way, you can’t grind for what you don’t know. People who do get the achievements will know they got an achievement, but no way of knowing what they did to earn it. Of course, this is ruined when the achievements go public or people start figuring out what they did. It keeps the first couple of weeks free of HEAVY FEVER though. Actually, just disabling achievements for more than 3 of a class on a server will deter grinders.
deux11 responded on 26 Jul 2008 at 7:26 am #
I grind achievements because I like to test the new weapons, although I miss the sudden…. achievement unlocked! I really miss that, but I like playing on a level field (although the weapons are balanced, the choice is not there without the weapons). I think the current model works great, but they should lower the limits (12 or 15 for milestone 3) and estimate that people can get the unlockables after a couple of hours (5-10) playing a class.
deux11 responded on 26 Jul 2008 at 7:28 am #
Oh yeah, the Achievement Box maps are great. I really hated it when the medic maps came out and I couldn’t find a normal game. Achievement Box maps do good by putting all the grinders together.
madlep responded on 26 Jul 2008 at 8:59 am #
I reckon the best way is to have all the weapons unlocked as soon as they are released for everyone.
Still have achievements and unlockables, but just have them unlock cosmetic or fun things in the game – not core gameplay mechanics. Something like a different taunt, or a different coloured hat or some crap. If you’re into that thing you can grind it, if not, it doesn’t affect your gameplay at all.
Michael responded on 26 Jul 2008 at 9:51 am #
I’ve gotta vote for maintaining the current structure for updates.
No matter what valve does, someone is going to whine about it. So if none of the alternatives offer a solution that is realistic to implement while gaining significant improvement, it is best not to mix things up.
In the end, the grinders will grind and those dedicated to earning them legitimately (among whom I count myself) will continue to do so. This really can’t be stopped without giving away the unlocks for nothing (which would likely piss off many more people than we what are currently dealing with).
General Balls responded on 26 Jul 2008 at 11:47 am #
Valve hit the sweet spot with the Pyro update, methinks.
It is simply not that hard to get all the unlocks now, provided you have some skill, and there are still the harder achievements you can get later on when you’re not expecting them.
If it continues along this way, I’ll be happy. As long as the new weapons are balanced.
People will still grind, and good luck to them, but I don’t think much of it. It’s a hell of a lot more fun and rewarding getting them the normal way.
n00bie51 responded on 26 Jul 2008 at 11:47 am #
I’m not going to give a solution because I don’t think there is one. To me, Valve shouldn’t have released unlockables in the first place, end of story.
BathrobeAssassin responded on 26 Jul 2008 at 4:19 pm #
I grinded Medic and Pyro at the same time.
Valve shouldn’t take away grinding unless they want to suck.
funkeystu responded on 26 Jul 2008 at 5:07 pm #
I like madlep’s idea quite a bit, but I also think that provided Valve keep making decent pyro-style achievement the current system can still work. Plenty of the Medic Achievements are quite simply unattainable without joining an achievement server or compromising your teams chance of winning (getting a Heavy to punch two people in an uber, anyone?), and I think that these style achievements are what is responsible for most people’s disdain towards the whole achievement farming thing.
The Pyro achievements however are quite easily unlockable through relatively normal gameplay and without severely compromising the rest of the team (except maybe the kill 6 people with your axe in one life one).
RJ-Pilot responded on 27 Jul 2008 at 7:53 am #
Solution 6 – Base the requirements for earning achievements on the amount of time the user has spent playing TF2, and not on what they’ve been doing.
TF2 Digital Jedi » Valve Removes Health Bonus From Backburner responded on 30 Jul 2008 at 10:04 am #
[...] glorious day. Valve must have finally listened to what the community was saying and have removed the +50 health bonus from the backburner. No more indestructible pyros running [...]
Yugian responded on 01 Aug 2008 at 6:41 am #
Maybe… (oh god this will get bashed XD)
An experence bar?
YES. an experence bar XD
For doing certant actions, you can get Experience points, such as a medic ubering a heavy and he mows/caps a point or a sniper head shot, spy back stab, pyro lights someone or sends a crit rocket back, scout capping a point
and maybe the achivements can be extra XP?
Such as (if this is one) a scout clearing a round with only his bat!
(I do know this is farmable, but it could work casualy as well!)
Anonymous responded on 19 Aug 2008 at 3:48 pm #
1st:Perhaps an XP bar would be fair. As we reach a certain level, we’re awarded new weapons. Still, the current gameplay I have on TF2 is quite good, and “achievement whoring” as many describe it, is getting part of the game. I know a Steam Group that has got 3 active achievement servers.
2nd:Do you really think that taking away the HP bonus out of the Backburner made things better? No freaking way. The Backburner has no crit hits unless you attack by the back. It means your team must be sloppy enough to let a pyro go behind enemy lines, hide, wait and burn the entire team, so it’s a matter of seeing what a pyro can do and can’t do, and a Backburner has got some disadvantages.
someone responded on 24 Aug 2008 at 7:26 am #
You forgot a con for solution 2 and 3. No one will want to play any other map then the official achievement obtainable ones, thus no one will play, say, Aqua or toyfort.
It’s the same think with Battlefield & CoD4’s “Ranked” servers. It simply kills the 3rd party mapping scene.
I wouldn’t mind all the unlocks being available from the get-go, but really, I don’t think we’d ever see a regular bonesaw or fist. I’d love solution 4, but that’s just not viable for valve, and I don’t blame them, they didn’t even have to do these updates. So be thankful. I say the Exp bar idea is pretty good, maybe a different bar for each class.
Hell, I think I’d already be a Level 50 scout then…..