“LVL70 UberSaw MED LFG Goldrush PST. NO MED achievement farmers pls”
It’s great that Valve puts so much into the TF2 community. Let me get that out of the way straight up. The stuff they’re doing with the new medic weapons, and new maps are great. I finally played the new update today, and… WOW. Gold Rush is a stroke of genius. Gotta be about the best TF2 map I’ve played. I mean, there’s something in there for everyone. Whatever class you want to play, there’s room for it in there.
It’s particularly well suited to pyro antics. I had my first game on it, and I totally rocked out. Top scored and all. Its the way the pyro is meant to be played – lots of back alleys to allow attacks from unexpected angles and quick sweep-and-retreat style play.
And the feel and intensity of the game is just great. Valve has really hit on a winning formula with this game mode. The balance in the games I played tonight constantly shifted back and forth as the cart moved through different sections of the map. There is so much variety in there that it forces you to constantly adapt the tactics to the ever changing game state.
Highlight of the evening’s play was where I was defending as a heavy. During warm up, me and a medic hid round a corner out of sight of the attackers. The medic charged up a critzcrieg and opened it up on me just as the count down timer finished and the gates opened. The attackers rushed out straight into a hail of crit chain gun bullets. Carnage everywhere. It was magnificent.
10 out of 10.
But about these new unlockable medic achievements…
Achievements are the by-product of socially retarded and undersexed game developers
I just really can’t get excited about locking the new medic gear behind the achievement gimmick that is so in vogue at the moment. I mean it’s great if you’re into that sort of thing. Kind of an e-bragging right for the people who actually care (I don’t). If you want to spent 3 hours laying down 1000 sticky bombs so you can get the “draw a picture of Doug Lombardi with scorch marks” achievement so you can boast to all the other cool kids at school, then all power to you – just don’t do that useless crap on any server that I’m on.
Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation currently has more internet authority (and traffic) than Jesus. He had some insightful words to say on the subject in last weeks Super Smash Bros. Brawl review, so I’ll e-quote it here:
It’s a long watch (but well worth it), so I’ll paraphrase liberally (i.e. make crap up):
Game developers don’t have sex, or hang out with cool people, or go out to parties, or even talk to human beings. So they pump out self-indulgent, pointless, and time consuming achievements cause they think everyone else likes to spend hours of their life endlessly playing through every edge case orifice of their game, because they are just that s**t hot.
I blame Blizzard, Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony for this crap
Blizzard and their golden goose of orcs and elves has lobotomized the prefrontal cortex of the game industry. Compared to the golden age of yesteryear (which never actually existed, but everyone thinks occurred about the time they were in college playing the game-du-jour for 10 hours a day), today’s game development efforts have turned into a stimulus/response reflex race to the bottom to transform every game into World of Warcraft.
Game developers look at Blizzard, see their pile of cash, and try to figure out how to replicate it. The answer that the triumvirate of evil (NinteMicroSony) came up with was to include an online system of shoe horning achievements into single player games that would otherwise have nothing what so ever to do with achievements. You got some androgynous anime-inspired waif to swing a super size sword and kill a boss? HAVE AN ACHIEVEMENT! You spent one man month hitting golf balls into hoops? ACHIEVEMENT! You crashed into every traffic light while it was orange while driving the wrong way around the track in your favorite arcade racer? YOU BETCHA! ACHIEVEMENTS GALORE! All of which is annoying and stupid, but ultimately harmless.
It’s like they tried to headhunt the high-priced consultants that came up with PHAT EPIC L00T from the early days of MMORPGs, but instead they actually got the guys that came up with the idea of those kitset model magazines where they dripfeed you one piece of the Bismarck or some crap every week to try and keep your interest in their product. Except that you get so bored of waiting for the grind for each new piece that you lost interest in whatever the original product itself was. In the end you give up by the time you’ve barely even assembled the port lifeboats and the officers’ private latrine.
(Yes, I may have been one of those people that bought something just for the kitset model – but it was of the New Zealand Antarctic base, and it was Weet-Bix cereal, and I was 8 years old)
Now that’s fine. Let them think that and code in these achievements (it’s a waste of resources that could go into game polishing, but thats their business I guess if they want to make an inferior product). The problem is when they force you onto the achievement grind treadmill just to get core game play elements.
Lazy developers. You’re not fooling anyone
It makes it too easy for developers to get lazy and skimp on game content. Say that you market your game as having 40 hours of playable content? What is cheaper: developing a game that really has 40 hours of content, or just developing 2 hours worth, and including 20 “achievements” that you have to grind through unlock in order to reach all of that 2 hours of content?
I paid for this stuff. Why won’t you let me just have it?
Do you think that I find it fun to waste my time jumping through hoops for you? As I’ve already established, I don’t have time for that crap. I bought your game and I demand to be entertained. I play it because I find something intrinsically fun about it. I have all week at work to grind through repetitive mind numbing tasks (actually no, my job isn’t that bad, but you get the gist of it).
If you put the goodies up on a high shelf where I can’t reach, the game ceases to be fun within the time parameters I’ve got to play it. If madlep doesn’t have fun, madlep doesn’t buy your game. You don’t make money, and you go out of business, and you end up destitute living on a street corner holding a cardboard sign reading “will code achievements for food”
But there are particularly bad problems when we’re talking about unlockables and mutliplayer games:
Jim Raynor didn’t need unlockable grenades to beat back the zerg
It’s merely annoying to lock up single player content, but it’s down right broken to grant better stuff (or even different stuff) to some players in multi player games that just happen to have done more of your moronic little time wasters. Blizzard (despite their later sins), was the original master of finely balanced multi-player gaming with Star-craft. The whole game was open to begin with, and it was incredibly well balanced. Imagine if you had to grind through weeks of play just to be on a level playing field? Would Star-craft be the national phenomenon it is in South Korea today if new players had to go through that crap just to be able to get their butt kicked fair and square by that hyper active 8 year old genius?
Valve sponsored Roombaism
You know how I mentioned that I top scored as pyro at the beginning of the post? IT WAS BECAUSE THE ENTIRE SERVER WAS FULL OF MEDICS TRYING TO UBER DEMOMEN JUMPING OFF CLIFFS, MEDICS TRYING TO UBER SCOUTS, OR MEDICS TRYING TO UBER FIST HEAVIES (or the scouts or heavies or whatever from their clan helping them out)
Ridiculous stuff. What the hell did valve think would happen when they put such moronic criteria for the achievements in there?
(Co-incidentally, I was too damn lazy to take my own in game screen shot, so I googled for one, then I went to look at who to credit it with, and it turns out it’s by Shakey Lo, from my old Tribes 2 clan – |8| Hi Shakey! Shakey rocks as a Tribes 2 Heavy Offence player. Those were the days… )
Gold rush rocks, but I’m going to be sorely tempted not to even bother playing for the next few weeks till this crap dies down a bit.
Achievement farming
It actually took me sometime to find a public server with a real gold rush game – or a real game with any map for that reason. Partly because there is still a lot of popularity, and the servers genuinely are busy. But mostly because I had to go through about 5 different servers before I found one where players weren’t there with their clanmates/friends/whatever solely for the purpose of grinding achievements to get the unlocks so they could go and play normally afterwards.
What the hell is the point Valve?
If these achievements are supposed to be bringing so much fun to the game, why are people doing this?
It’s all very MMORPGish. Why do you spent two nights slaying fearsome murlocs? It’s so you can get the quest reward of a bigger sword. And you need a bigger sword to do what? That’s right! So you can go and slay mighty murlocs, so you can get an even bigger sword, so you can go and slay Elite murlocs and over and over.
My brain hasn’t implemented tail-recursion optimization so I get a call stack overflow a few weeks into a grind like this (that means “I get bored and quit” in english. Sorry for the computer science geekery, but it’s late and I should be asleep).
Well, the guys from Control Point had some fun, but they’re a fun bunch of people, and they’d even be able to amuse themselves at an antique bed-pan dealers convention:
The potential black market for fully unlocked characters
This hasn’t happened yet to my knowledge, but the entrepreneurs that brought the world gold-farming and power-levelling must be rubbing their hands together that Valve has opened up a new market for them. Why spend weeks levelling up a TF2 account to get all the unlocks when you can buy a ready made account from some shady guy dealing out of a Beijing area code?
Again: What the hell is the point Valve?
The biggest problem
madlep sucks at this kind of stuff. I’m just not patient enough, and at this rate I will never get to know the joy of ubersawing to build up my critzcrieg. Have pity on a poor crap player like me Valve!
Conclusion
So I don’t know what to make of all this. I’m obviously not a big fan of the whole unlockable concept. Hopefully the next few weeks are such a mess that Valve seriously rethinks the whole unlockables roadmap. Ideally they’ll just release new items for the other classes ready to play by all as soon as they come out – and do the same for the medic items.
Bring on the new weapons and abilities. Even keep the achievements if you really have want (I won’t be getting them).
But leave the unlockables out please!
Stumble it!
Exhibit A responded on 02 May 2008 at 12:23 am #
Very well thought out, I agree totally.
Borghead responded on 02 May 2008 at 12:28 am #
I totally agree. Goldrush is a fantastic map… imagine how fun it will be when half of the team isn’t trying to unlock medic achievements! This is pretty much exactly what I was expecting to happen with the new patch…
Wilshire005 responded on 02 May 2008 at 12:28 am #
I totally agree, Don’t even want to sign in till it dies down. Atleast I have GTA so I’m not bored while I wait.
/D/irection responded on 02 May 2008 at 1:59 am #
Yep, pretty much my thoughts too. I was excited to get in and see what it would be like, only to join a server with 23 medics.
And it might just be because i haven’t found a decent goldrush server yet, but at this point in time, es_cave7 is proving to be a better map. It’s short and intense, i love it.
Tea. Earl Grey. Hot. [CP-N] responded on 02 May 2008 at 2:01 am #
I agree nearly completely. I like achievements. But they should be a surprise “Hey! I did something cool!” kindathing instead of actually unlocking things. Valve should see what’s happening on the servers and unlock the weapons for everyone.
Nordic responded on 02 May 2008 at 2:19 am #
This is the truth right here.
I saw one server that had 12 medics running around dm_duelv2.
It’s just silly.
Laid-Off Pete responded on 02 May 2008 at 3:14 am #
I totally agree with EVERYTHING said. I love the new map and I love the achievements, but the UNLOCKABLES are hair-pulling! WTF. It is so pointless that every server I join has 18 f**king medics. Please stop my endless achievement grinding, and thank you for posting this on your highly insightful and kickass website! I check it every day from work multiple times. Thanks for all the laughs and great content.
Valve… please nix the unlockables. Lets get back to regular Team Fortress!
vbigiani responded on 02 May 2008 at 3:32 am #
Yea, achievements farming on pubs is cheap. And, many of those are stupid, doubly disrupting the game.
OTOH, I farmed achievements on a private server for a total of about 10 hours, and I’m wielding the ubersaw without using the cheat
Obviously, the 1milion health will take you ~40 hours of play, but it carries over from pre-patch, and you need only 37 achievements out of 39 for the ubersaw – you can skip two.
CaptainPepsi responded on 02 May 2008 at 3:38 am #
Achievements really discourage teamplay cause everyone is running around trying to get achievements instead of helping the team. The game called TEAM Fortress 2 your supposed to work as a team not run ubering scouts trying to get achievements. I mean look at bf2142, that has ranks and no one wants to ever do anything as a team cause they just wanna get points to rank up
Pinko responded on 02 May 2008 at 3:59 am #
I’ll admit it, I used the achievements_unlock_all console code, simply because I’m lazy and wanted to see what the new weapons were like. But I haven’t played medic more than about twenty minutes since. Sure, the new weapons are cool, but I want to play a REAL game of TF2 more than I want to play medic with it’s super neat weapons. Hell, I don’t even play medic, so I doubt I’ll ever use these.
And when the scout achievements come out (I’m a career scout. Boink.), I’m going to have to sit through all these people complaining about how scouts are overpowered now, and there are too many people playing scout, and scouts should be nerfed because everyone plays them suddenly.
Either release everything at once, or make the unlocks available at once to everyone, that’s what I say.
Pinko responded on 02 May 2008 at 4:00 am #
Oh, also, with all these damn medic shenanigans going on, I’ve been playing GTA IV much more often than TF2, something I never do.
Gray responded on 02 May 2008 at 4:23 am #
I agree Pinko, they should release all the achievments for every class at the same time. That way, people will be using there fav class, and the teams will still be even.
I’m really pissed off about these. Some of the ahchivments are just stupid, and the only way you’ll ever get them is if you cheat. Seriously valve, listen to Madlep.
Punjabi Fury responded on 02 May 2008 at 4:28 am #
Wow, that just kept going and going.
Part of me agrees with you, part does not.
I enjoy getting achievements, and I feel like I’ve “achieved” a lot more when I unlock something as a result. I feel oddly proud of it.
On the other hand, what you said about Valve forcing players to get the achievements makes complete sense.
I think the way they meant it to work was that the weapons would be rewards for being effective medics, so that people could choose to specialise on a single or a few classes, get really good at them and be rewarded with new combat options as a result.
There is no need to get the achievements. None at all. Unless you want to play medic. And then when the other weapons come out, there’ll be no need to get them either, unless you want to play the game.
What I mean is that it’s possible, of course, to stick with the base weapon loadout and ignore the “upgrades” (or “sidegrades” or whatever they are). But as gamers we feel that unless we explore the options fully we aren’t playing the game as well as we should be. Which is a shame, it is.
Just to note: I have unlocked the Ubersaw. Through grinding, not cheating. Took me about 5 hours total play time. I don’t even play medic that much. I wanted the weapons to have not to use. I am a complete sucker for these things, and I wish I wasn’t. I used then for about 30 minutes and went back to Pyro.
I don’t agree that you can compare TF2 to Starcraft though. Also, I don’t care about the sudden influx of medic, because that’s a temporary thing. It’s more the principle that bugs me.
b4dboyz- responded on 02 May 2008 at 5:30 am #
I envy your grasp of the english language.
CaptainPepsi responded on 02 May 2008 at 5:49 am #
I agree with pinko to. I love being scout( i have like 60 hours+ as a scout) but when their achievements come out everyone will be a scout and it wont be any fun to play as them anymore
Takar Blackangel responded on 02 May 2008 at 7:10 am #
I agree wholeheartedly. The achievements are really fun to get. I really feel awesome when I get one. But it shouldn’t be linked with the “sidegrades”. They offer a new way of playing, new tactics, at the price of being the 27th medic of the server and grinding endlessly to get them.
I played medic once in a while, when my team needed one. I’m not a fantastic one, but I can do a fine job when needed. I won’t farm the achievements and I won’t play medic unless there are only a few (1-2) in my team.
madlep responded on 02 May 2008 at 8:12 am #
Something is wrong…
Why is everyone agreeing with one of my rants? O_o
I must have made some critical logic error in my reasoning.
Panther responded on 02 May 2008 at 8:48 am #
Long time reader, first time commenting; You hit the nail on the head in this article. Awesome job.
Wossname responded on 02 May 2008 at 9:19 am #
I agree, too. Part of what makes tf2 so fantastic is that it’s so very ACCESSIBLE to the general public. And now… it is less so.
Unlocks are fine in a game like this, but I’d rather they be kept to fluff and not gameplay-altering effects. I have loads of ideas for the KritzKrieg, but because it is a performance-related unlockable, the only person I can ever be 100% certain to have it is *myself*. And that really eliminates part of the team feel.
inso responded on 02 May 2008 at 9:23 am #
First time commenter
i, too, agree on some points but not on others. Its just like playin any other game, where you’re “supposed” to play the game additional “X” times to get the special features. Sure, some will b completely unless, but it brings “some” replay value to the game. That’s just how some games are programmed to be, although, many people just either: don’t care and play to finish or use cheat codes.
this whole medic spamming business is just a phase, i mean, c’mon how long will it really take some people to finally get these achievements. Just go to an achievement map or obtain as you go. I think Valve should keep the new items coming and to be unlocked, it gives people something to do and new ways to play. But there will always b people against it, like those to hate crit rockets in the face!
love the blog
madlep responded on 02 May 2008 at 9:31 am #
@Wossname – yeah, that’s true. Unlocks are fine if they are kept to cosmetic and/or fun stuff.
I remember back in Guild Wars, they had an unlockable pet that was just a miniature monster from the game. All it did was follow you round. Totally useless, but it looked cool and some people got into it.
To get it, you just had to have the character exist for 1 year (it was a “birthday present”). In that way, they were a status symbol, but they didn’t affect game balance at all. That’s a good way of doing it. If Valve did a similar thing in TF2 it would be cool.
Guild wars also had custom emotes that you could only do once you’d reach a certain rank in PvP. That works as well, as it gives a way of showing off how good you are without unleveling the game. Although they made it hard to get into a pick up PvP team if you couldn’t do the required emote, but the more experienced players saw that as a good thing cause it would act as a filter for some really bad players.
Wossname responded on 02 May 2008 at 9:36 am #
@madlep — unlockable taunts, man. That’d be a fun page from the GuildWars book.
Josh responded on 02 May 2008 at 10:15 am #
Ugh… now my TF2 isn’t finding any servers, so I can’t play at all.
Pwnzerfaust responded on 02 May 2008 at 12:34 pm #
All of this is so true and so obvious that it makes me genuinely upset that Valve didn’t consider it more seriously. Honestly, I can’t think of anyone who would rather spend hours grinding arbitrary achievements to get new features over just having them right from the start. They’re well balanced weapons and there are plenty of reasons to pick either the defaults or the unlockables; why make us work our asses off for stuff that wouldn’t unbalance the game if it were just given to us?
Gehn responded on 02 May 2008 at 2:05 pm #
tl;dr.
Just kidding, I didn’t check my feeds until right before bed so I’ll read this tomorrow morning or something. From looking at the title though I think it’s safe to say that I agree with you completely.
/D/irection responded on 02 May 2008 at 2:14 pm #
What annoys me the most though, is that i play medic regularly. It’s a class i have grown to enjoy and i have been able to keep up a good positive kdr at times (provided my team is good support also)
But i haven’t played more than 5 minutes as a medic since this update, and all the medics running around have no idea what they’re doing.
They should have brought 3 class achievment sets out at a time, so the servers don’t get stacked.
P. H. responded on 02 May 2008 at 5:10 pm #
@madlep – What about different clothing? Say, you get to wear medals or armbands, new gloves, etc., if you complete some or all of the achievements.
madlep responded on 02 May 2008 at 5:50 pm #
@P.H. – yeah, that’s all good. Cosmetic or fun stuff that doesn’t affect gameplay is a perfect reward for achievements.
But that should be all that it is limited to.
Poke responded on 02 May 2008 at 6:47 pm #
I agree with Wossname.
Valve, make the new weapons available (and make them different, not better, because i think the current new loadout is superior to the regular one, except maybe the critzkriege which is spot-on), make them available on the get-go, and use achievement to unlock taunts.
That would be really, really awesome.
You’ve Got To Keep Moving, Boy « Tales From Fantasy Bazaar responded on 02 May 2008 at 8:16 pm #
[...] 2 05 2008 So, TF2 was patched. As you probably know. It’s already been discussed on many good [...]
Theory responded on 02 May 2008 at 9:57 pm #
That’s a goddamn fantastic idea. Far more fun than unlocking weapons!
Zutty responded on 02 May 2008 at 10:18 pm #
What a fucking prick. Its one thing to say that you don’t like the game, but to say…
“Achievements are the by-product of socially retarded and undersexed game developers”
… just proves what a swaggering, self-aggrandising, know-nothing cunt you are.
Did you post this drivel just so you could prove what a bandwagon-hopping wanker you are, or do you just get some kind of perverted gratification from insulting game developers?
Why to fuck do even bother playing if you hate the game so much?
You deserve never to be allowed to use a PC or console ever again.
MediumSized responded on 02 May 2008 at 10:24 pm #
Yes.
I enjoy games like TF2 for the over-the-top action and the visceral sense of release I get from blowing stuff up. I get no sense of accomplishment from completing “extra” achievements in this or any game. I’ve tried getting the “100% completion” gimmick elsewhere, and afterwards, I felt as though I’d wasted a huge amount of time. If TF2’s new weapons remain as unlockables tied to achievements, I plan to ignore them and continue to play the rest of the game as long as it remains fun and balanced.
AR responded on 02 May 2008 at 10:26 pm #
So this has been linked from the Valve forum, where someone wrote:
“We paid for TF2, as it was when it was released. VALVe could, if they wanted too, charge for any new content.”
That is my big concern with the new “item” system nonsense.
Because: *We paid for TF2!* We paid for a fun, balanced game. Valve has, in this update, taken away a fair chunk of our fun, balanced game – and is making us work (grind achievements) to get that back.
I’ll be mighty pissed off if the next thing they do is try to make us pay money to *get back something we already had!*
(Pedants: Yes I know we didn’t have the weapons themselves – but what we DID have was a level playing field… and no medic-swarm).
madlep responded on 02 May 2008 at 11:19 pm #
@Zutty – THANK YOU
I was beginning to think something was wrong. All these agreeing voices makes me nervous. Once the nay-sayers chime in, I begin to feel better that I’m not posting vacuous drivel.
Disapointed - Page 2 - One World Syndicate Community Forums responded on 03 May 2008 at 12:47 am #
[...] permalink “LVL70 UberSaw MED LFG Goldrush PST. NO MED achievement farmers pls” | ubercharged.net [...]
John responded on 03 May 2008 at 2:15 am #
Alright, I originally thought that this wouldn’t be such a bad idea, but in practice it is. Unlockable taunts though, that’s the single greatest idea in history.
Um...TE responded on 03 May 2008 at 2:52 am #
[Zutty sez...]What a fucking prick. Its one thing to say that you don’t like the game, but to say…
“Achievements are the by-product of socially retarded and undersexed game developers”
… just proves what a swaggering, self-aggrandising, know-nothing cunt you are.[...]
madlep may be a swaggering, self-aggrandising (sic), know-nothing cunt, but that doesn’t make him wrong.
I mean, have you seen photos of Gabe? Can you imagine _any_ woman thinking to herself, “oh, I’m going to be so over that!” And Robin? He has a girl’s name, for cryin’ out loud – more suited for an androgynous superhero sidekick of questionable sexual orientation than a man.
Pinko responded on 03 May 2008 at 3:24 am #
@Madlep: Huzzah! Thanks to Zutty, your reputation is once again stable!
n00bie51 responded on 03 May 2008 at 5:07 am #
Just so you know, Zutty, madlep’s statement about “socially retarded and undersexed game developers” was facetious and he’s just blowing off some Steam. I doubt he hates Valve so much that he would really think so critically of them. He doesn’t hate Team Fortress 2, you jerk. I don’t think he ever said he did, he just dislikes the new changes.
I’m going to agree like these other dudes some more. Unlockables and character levels? Yeah, that stuff shouldn’t fly with shooters, let alone Team Fortress 2. Long term player benefits is not for shooters, this is not a RPG. The Achievements themselves are absurd. If Valve wanted more people to play as Medics, they succeeded, but the drawback is that they’re so pre-occuppied with getting the Achievements that it’s sacrificing team work and coordination (or worse, encouraging it through staging them) and ignoring practical gameplay.
Mudkip responded on 03 May 2008 at 5:08 am #
I agree with your every word, my dear Sir.
and Valve developers, when you read this;
you just took away the most important reason for me to play TF2. D :
gryffinp [CP-?] responded on 03 May 2008 at 6:24 am #
I see those crazy kids kept on farming after I left.
Andrew responded on 03 May 2008 at 6:30 am #
Yup. Right on. TF2 was fun while it lasted…
dash responded on 03 May 2008 at 7:02 am #
Thanks for this blog post and i fully agree with all the points youve made!
Seriously, no idea what people @ Valve were thinking(or smoking) when they’ve decided to implement it -_-’
Gareth responded on 03 May 2008 at 8:28 pm #
I have mixed feelings. First I agree that Valve is not being fair to more casual (or just new/crappy) player by not holding out on the new equipment and I also hate the massive amounts of farming going on.
That said there are nice bits to the new achievements:
1) It adds a new level to the game. I think this may have been posted on here, but basically the argument is the achievements make you play in ways you did not think of. Before it would never have occurred to me to hunt down enemy medics with my bone-saw, have a heavy punch people senseless, or über a scout.
2) I am actually playing medic again. The new achievements made me play as a medic for the first time in a month and I forgot how much fun it is.
3) I can actually get a medic now. For some reason most of the servers with high player volumes I can find have no Medics… or just 1 medic who is glued to a Heavy. Now there are more medics playing which means my pyro actually gets an Über now.
Anyway IMO keep the achievements but get rid of them as pre-requisite for the new stuff.
Goldrush Spy Ownage « RocketJumping responded on 04 May 2008 at 1:29 am #
[...] blogs pertaining to the new achievements, mainly ubercharged, makes me think why VALVe makes achievements for weapons in the first place. I just accepted it as [...]
Gehn responded on 06 May 2008 at 12:49 am #
So yeah, I finally read that monster and I pretty much agree with it.
Though I had some fun grinding those achievements, I got most of them in that CP grindfest mentioned.
However when the pyro weapons come out and I have to axe fifty lvl3 sentries or flamethrower twenty enemies that are standing in water, the novelty will probably be worn out even for us easily amused folks.
fengal responded on 06 May 2008 at 1:27 am #
You make some extremely good points.
I completely agree and I can see why Yahtzee likes you.
[SKC]Dr.grifflez responded on 06 May 2008 at 7:12 am #
Replying: Leveling characters
The whole “leveling weapons” thing is a fake made by valve as a poke fun at world of warcraft or some other MMO (”congrats! you got a fucking lvl 4 Rusty Axe from a slimy Monster, go kill yourself with it and roll this games rouge”) if the weapons actually lvl’ed my sniper classes sniper rifle would be somewhere in the 30’s, as it is my best and favorite class.
Gerkuman responded on 06 May 2008 at 10:28 pm #
It’s an interesting argument, but it seems as if everyones settled into the same routine. You said:
‘IT WAS BECAUSE THE ENTIRE SERVER WAS FULL OF… MEDICS TRYING TO UBER SCOUTS’ and things like that. What’s wrong with ubering Scouts at a good time? Yes, I know that might sound a bit strange, but surely a Scout + Medic team would be good during an intelegence capturing mission. In the end, that’s the main difference between the smart and stupid ways of unlocking achievements. Medics + Scout in Goldrush, silly. Medic + Scout in Well, interesting tactic.
I know that probably didn’t make much sense, but this should clarify my thoughts. It’s like everyone is assuming that most TF2 players are noobs who don’t know how to use tactics that suit each map and that conciously farm to the detriment of their teams. It isn’t like that. True, it happens but I’ve been on serveral servers and I’ve seen no sign of it; almost as if it’s a localised problem to the servers you visit. I mean, in the end there is a chance that if a heavies bullets run out, and you’re the only thing that can get them to the re-supply station you might as well punch them to death while you’re at it.
Besides, when you look at it it seems that most people in general like the idea; it’s just those people don’t really spend their time reading gaming blogs X3
DeepBlue responded on 07 May 2008 at 4:17 am #
Personally, I hate the whole idea of Achievements in order to get weapons that make me feel like they’re unfair (perhaps not rightfully so from a balance standpoint, but considering that it’s added content and I’m not getting it it feels like that), and with achievements as ridiculous as this, Valve is basically saying “Get Achievement-farming, or you’re not a ‘real’ player so you won’t get the whole game”, which may be the most ridiculous and annoying statement of the year.
I understand that Valve may not want to throw their content down the drain, but they could either just unlock it for us all, or they may give us an option to play without the whole new weapon thing, or both. Until that time, I doubt I’ll be playing my beloved game again.
Goldrush is real nice though.
dreamss responded on 07 May 2008 at 7:54 pm #
i went and sent an email to gabe newelll of valve, complaing about the lack of multicore support and medic achievements.
heres the reply (first part is about multicore support):
There are and we will.
TF 2 medic mania will calm down as more weapons/achievements come out
for the other classes.
Thanks for the mail,
Gabe
Suricane responded on 08 May 2008 at 1:27 am #
Well at first I was really excited by the new medic content ’cause medic is my best, favourite, most-played class…
Unfortunately it has become impossible to play medic on the majority of the servers… Whenever there is a good heavy or pyro every medic is rushing on him to get points and grind achievements… you can’t even heal someone… So i am quite disappointed with these new achievements because i cant play medic anymore and i’m reduced to go pyro and play like a noob…
Thanks for all your articles madlep =) and cheers from switzerland
n00bie51 responded on 10 May 2008 at 4:12 pm #
Gerkuman, when the update first came out, you could find over a dozen Medics in a single server and not get crap done because they were all too busy bone sawing each other and doing their own thing.
ben responded on 11 May 2008 at 3:54 am #
I agree, I love TF2 but I havent even signed one as soon as i found out about the unlockables, I mean lets face it I suck at TF2 but that doesnt mean i should be missing some of the content.
Scrander responded on 11 May 2008 at 6:23 am #
Regarding Medic Achievements, I don’t give a shit. I work with what I got and play the damn thing.
Omega responded on 02 Jun 2008 at 11:09 pm #
Hack your achievements like every other intelligent person!
RJ-Pilot responded on 09 Jun 2008 at 7:28 am #
One day I shall play as medic just to see what all the fuss is about…
NMac responded on 15 Jul 2008 at 4:13 pm #
It is pretty disappointing to see this change. I think achievements are a dumb idea from a dumb console, created to give mediocre players a sense of accomplishment where none is deserved, but I won’t begrudge the devs the right to make such crap for their games.
What bothers me is the fact that we went from a team based FPS where everyone starts at a level playing field, with skill being the only real difference between the players. Now the game has changed to one in which people who play longer than others are rewarded with better weapons. Talk about being noob unfriendly.
I hate unlockables in games. I paid for the game, I only have so much time to play per week, don’t force me to waste time unlocking the game! Limit unlockables to tags, skins, taunts, whatever, let the people who get a stiff one from playing more than others have that crap, but let the normal folks start on an equal plane with everyone else. I don’t play mmo games for this very reason.
As the author said, keep the stupid achievements, keep the stupid new weapons, but nix the damn unlockables.
A Sense Of Achievements (part 1) | ubercharged.net responded on 31 Oct 2008 at 8:02 am #
[...] are often talked about on this site. That’s not even all of them. So what new kernel am I bringing to the table? Well, [...]
Shadow responded on 16 Dec 2008 at 3:06 pm #
If anyone has trouble getting some of these, just go to a Modded Mario cart server. ya know, the ones w/ 100% crit and instant respawn? The’re practically lag-less and it’s much more enjoyable than using cheats.
Alpha responded on 23 Dec 2008 at 1:43 pm #
Err… I don’t remember Nintendo having achievements in any game other than the Super Smash Bros. series, While Sony has them in almost every game, and Microsoft in EVERY game.
chipbuster responded on 04 Jan 2009 at 7:31 pm #
Yeah, if there was a way to make everyone get achievements legit, I think achievements would work great. (I have all but 3 pyro pack achievements legit)
However, with the scout update coming up, I have the sinking feeling that all I’m going to hear is “bonk” for a few days.
And can you even begin to imagine the sniper or engineer update? *shudder*
tempest in a teacup » Achieving nothing responded on 12 Feb 2009 at 5:06 pm #
[...] You can read the rest of his post, which deals with the mentality of achievement farmers, here. [...]
Farmer John responded on 08 Jun 2009 at 3:10 pm #
I’m posting this just a year after you wrote this to verify that your fears have come to pass. Only this time, people idle for hats. At least for the initial unlockables you had to work and “achieve” things to gain them. Now you just sit in achievement_idle.