Players you dont want on your Team Fortress 2 Team - Weighted Companion Sniper
They just stand there shooting at each other. They don’t actually do anything. They may as well just be a part of the scenery. You could drop them into a blazing, metal melting furnace, and no one would even notice they were gone. I’m not talking about the soldier-crit-shot reformists populating the steam forums, or the anonymous clan stacking apologists from OCAU or Whirlpool.
I’m talking about the god damn weighted companion snipers.
Circular Reasoning
You know who I mean. Those guys that hang out on 2fort (but can be found in most places). They each camp out a sliver of the balcony on either side of the map, nervously edging out to expose the same sliver of balcony on the opposite side, and try to take out the opposing sniper. And the opposing sniper’s only task - to nervously edge out and take a pot shot at them. And repeat ad-infinitum.
I’m sure some of these guys are talented Counter-Strike players. But that crap doesn’t fly in Team Fortress 2. Its useless at best, and a drag to the entire team at worst. If you’ve got 2 or 3 guys just standing there shooting, that’s 2 or 3 guys that aren’t helping you win.
Yeah fine, you can argue that they are controlling territory or helping with defense. I call BS. They are so universally cowardly that they can barely handle exposing themselves enough for a quick shot at the other sniper nest, let alone taking a look at what is going on below. They are dead to me. A waste of space.
And then you could argue that the snipers help the attackers by neutralizing the opposing sniper who would otherwise make life hard for your team. WHICH IS STUPID BECAUSE ALL THEY ARE DOING IS FIRING BACK AT THE FIRST SET OF SNIPERS WHO ARE FIRING BACK AT THEM! The circular logic fallacies of the whole thing makes my head hurt. I’ll leave chicken/egg debates to the intelligent design crowd setting science curriculum in our schools, but I’d hope TF2 players had a bit more common sense than that.
If you want to control snipers on the balcony, just lob a few stickies up there. Its amazing how quiet the whole deck gets once the snipers think they might get a scratch on their fresh nail polish.
The Aussie Battler Image
The characters in Team Fortress 2 are a bunch of shallow stereotypes, and I love them for that. They are hilarious. The sniper is no exception. He’s the type of solitary, isolated Aussie outdoorsman who spends weeks camped somewhere in the outback stalking a kangaroo or a dingo or something. He’s the guy made famous by Crocodile Dundee and the late Steve Irwin. Unfortunately, a few too many recent Counter Strike migrants have taken that to heart and embraced that proud ideal of standing around for HOURS not doing much. Croc dundee spent weeks in the outback because it is big and it is not filled with anything particularly interesting apart from flies, sand, and an occasional lost American tourist in a bathing suit. It takes a long time to do anything. Even going to the local pub for a beer is a week long expedition. 2fort has a slightly higher target turnover rate.
Just you know, hurry it up a bit huh?
(Hint - most Australians are actually much like anyone else in the world, except with a twangy accent that you get used to after a while. No, they don’t ride kangaroos to get to school here. Yes, they do drink a lot of beer. No, Australia doesn’t want Russell Crowe back)
The Good Snipers
I’m not ragging on snipers in general here. There are some great snipers out there, as OSI showed us the other week. A good sniper will pick a good spot to help the team and make life easier for the attackers and/or defenders, and will generally avoid the stupid “I shoot, you shoot” sniper duels, because they know they are ultimately unproductive. If you watch great snipers they are constantly moving explicitly not to get into those situations.
I’m not a good sniper (I’m just not patient enough, and my aim sucks - pyro was invented for uncos like me), but I do appreciate the good ones when they are on my team. The weighted companion snipers though… well hopefully they get kicked cause the server thought they were inactive (or dead), after not moving for 5 minutes.
madlep on December 4th 2007 in sniper, team fortress 2
Stumble it!
ki-pa-saiki responded on 04 Dec 2007 at 12:35 am #
what you fail to think of is the strategical value that a sniper posses. think of it as a game of chess. put yourself in the place of a rook. you can see one space in front of you. however you have someone who can see all of the board. how can you not see the value of a person who can see all that is going on. someone who can tell you exactly where you enemy is. how can you be effective in combat when you do not know where your enemies are? not to mention the value of having someone to put some fear into the other snipers. so instead of being picked off one by one and not gaining any foot you are able to push forward. what i see in your analysis is someone who only thinks of the total kill and who got the most kills. does this work out in a actual war? of course it does not. what i also see is someone who is limited to a narrow field of vision and can not think of any other way to view it. simple minded. no matter what you are doing a good strategy is key to victory. you need to start thinking like someone who has value to a mission not like a leech who wants to suck out the lifeblood from a unit.
think about what i said and reply if you choose. just please do not spam me.
my email address is
thecripplehwowalks@gmail.com
Elvis! responded on 04 Dec 2007 at 12:57 am #
ki-pa-saiki, I think you’re being a bit idealistic here….maybe in your perfect zen universe the snipers would act as the omipresent recon-lords of the battlefield but in reality they tend to be a group of screeching children taking pot shots at eachother and essentially cancelling eachother’s input out. Snipers CAN be useful….there’s no doubt about it, but what madlep describes is a very common thing that occurs on any 2fort game.
I decided to play a sniper on 2fort recently and i found myself slipping into that pattern before saying to myself “i’ve become what I always hated” my solution? I helped defend the sewers/ main entrance from attacks, probably the only two useful things I could have done as a sniper on that map.
Anonymous responded on 04 Dec 2007 at 1:10 am #
1. It’s not pointless. If there were no counter-sniper, who do you think that enemy would be shooting at?
2. They typically don’t just shoot at each other, they’re also firing at anything else that walks across the bridge, and even the worst sniper can effectively limit travel out in the open simply by posing a threat.
This rant is worse than your clan stacking stuff.
Bob responded on 04 Dec 2007 at 4:06 am #
I agree with the blogger - but snipers do have good points:
1 - it is officially the anti-medic/anti-heavy and anti-turrent toon - if the other team has a ton of heavies/turrents, you need a sniper.
2. I’m guilty - I luvers me some hedshotz
Darren responded on 04 Dec 2007 at 5:16 am #
I’m totally in agreement with Anon. This sounds like it was written by someone who was playing Scout and couldn’t get across the bridge roof without being one-shotted. I can’t play sniper for the life of me but holy hell between this and the constant whining about clan stacking this blog is just channeling the Steam forums at this point.
Johnmazz responded on 04 Dec 2007 at 6:01 am #
Whats an unco?
=)
madlep responded on 04 Dec 2007 at 6:29 am #
Totally agree with you guys about snipers helping control the game, and I did talk about those toward the end. However, the guys that I’m bitching about are the ones with tunnel vision who ONLY seem to care about their kill/death ratio and will totally ignore the rest of the game at the expense of trying to rack up as many headshots on enemy snipers as possible.
I love the guys that snipe away and take out the attackers. If I was a scout, and couldn’t get across the bridge, then I wouldn’t have anything to complain about here. I’m complaining about when I’m scout and CAN get across the bridge, even though there are a bunch of snipers on the other side who didn’t even see me because they weren’t out far enough to watch that side of the deck.
Unco == “Unco-ordinated”
Anonymous responded on 04 Dec 2007 at 11:17 am #
I haven’t met a sniper like that in TF2 yet, I’ve met ones that shoot other snipers over other players sure, but again. That has a god damn point. If they didn’t shoot the other snipers, everyone else would be dead.
Maybe I just don’t play on the same servers as you /shrug
Yuppy responded on 05 Dec 2007 at 4:20 am #
The only time these snipers are worth while is when there are only 1 of them on your team and 3 on the other team. Thus that 1 guy is taking care of 3 enemies by keeping them busy and off the rest of the team.
Else: Failboat.jpg
Jono responded on 05 Dec 2007 at 11:15 am #
In your own words, those kind of snipers essentially cancel each other out and may as well not even be there. If that’s the case, why do you really care? It’s then upto the balance of classes on the teams and skill of the players.
Generally you get less than a handful on each side anyway, in which case; the rest of the players on the server are still evenly matched and can carry on enjoying the game the way they see fit, (which I might add, is what the snipers are doing).
If the amount of snipers on each team is not balanced then one side will surely push for a win and make the game more interesting.
Sure you might be on the team with 3 snipers where the enemy has 1 but hey, it’s luck of the draw, you can’t win em all.
Elvis! responded on 05 Dec 2007 at 9:54 pm #
Honestly speaking though, i’d rather the team i was fighting had too many snipers as opposed to too many soldiers…..snipers are so easy to take out if you’re not directly in their scope.
Anonymous responded on 06 Dec 2007 at 11:48 am #
… Soldiers are too if you aren’t stupid enough to get point blank, and know how to move. It’s not like their rockets move fast or anything.
Elvis! responded on 06 Dec 2007 at 10:41 pm #
I don’t think stupidity has anything to do with it….more likely the close quarters nature of 2fort. Are you telling me you’ve never been surprised by a soldier coming round a corner? I think it’s funny how people on the internet always talk as if they’re demigods at everything they turn their attention to. Less bravado please!
Anonymous responded on 07 Dec 2007 at 1:00 am #
Of course I have, and I’ve gotten crit in the face and died, but how is that any different than walking onto some hidden stickies, being shot by a sniper you didn’t see, walking into a heavy who has his gun spinning, walking into a pyro’s ambush, being batted in the back by a scout, or hell even getting bonesaw’ed as you round a corner?
Answer: It’s not.
People get upset over soldiers because it doesn’t feel like it was something they did wrong, but rather that it was inevitable because you die in one hit rather than after a short period of time.
That doesn’t change the fact that it WAS the player’s fault that it happened, and that it WAS most likely avoidable.
I’ve taken to the nature of not rounding corners aimlessly, I listen, I look, and I make sure I’m not round the corner tightly. peaking around corners prior to coming fully out is also advised.
Once again, it’s NOT hard to dodge a soldier’s rockets. With well over 100 hours of play time logged in total, I’ve seen it happen multiple times, and do it constantly myself.
In fact, the only class that I’d say has a regular disadvantage to the soldier would be the medic, and perhaps the engineer. Everything else, has a very good chance of killing the soldier if they can actually dodge properly.
I do it all the time myself, and it’s really not hard. The trick is to exploit your classes features rather than running in blindly.
For example:
Sniper: Out range him, if it isn’t possible to do this, get to medium-long range, and whittle him away with your machine pistol (less time to reload, and fires faster, you just need to dodge rockets long enough).
Scout: You’re faster, don’t double jump unless you absolutely need to (otherwise, you open yourself to a rocket when you land).
Pyro: Dodge the first four rockets, and then torch him while he’s reloading, but back out once he’s on fire. Proceed to shotgun him.
Heavy: It takes four rockets to the face to die, use this to your advantage if you’re out in the open. Avoid fighting in hallways, or when the soldier has ample cover. A tactical retreat to lure the soldier into a place where he cannot hide is the key.
Engineer: If he’s after your sentry, come up behind him and wrench/shotgun him (great for the 2fort intel room). If he’s after you, play like the pyro, but without the burning part at the beginning.
Spy: If your first backstab misses, cloak and run. Don’t try and fight him with your knife. If this isn’t possible, get as much range as you can, and use your revolver.
Soldier: If the enemy soldier has seen you, don’t fire first. Dodge his rockets, and THEN fire while he’s reloading.
It really is NOT that hard… People just don’t want to try. They get hit with a few crit rockets and go “WTF?! This is pointless” and then chalk it up to fate, and bad programming. Never mind the huge increase in the amount of people trying to turn this game into Unreal Tournament. It’s a class-based FPS, it’s not a game where everyone has an equal chance all the time. In TF2 there is ALWAYS a class that has an advantage over you, and the soldier is no different.
Elvis! responded on 07 Dec 2007 at 2:20 am #
Ok for the record, i’ve never stated that soldiers are overpowered, i just suggested that i’d rather face a team on 2fort with too many snipers rather than too many soldiers. On this particular map, I think a soldier is more valuable in both attack and defence. I never cried about the soldiers because I can’t kill them….the point I was making is that no matter how good a player someone is, they can’t always be in control of their environment and sometimes your opponent is just simply better than you.
Anonymous responded on 07 Dec 2007 at 3:38 am #
Never said you did, sorry if my response was misleading.
I included the ‘not overpowered’ bit in general as the discussion was eventually going to turn down that road, and I would rather nip it in the bud prior to it devolving into a bunch of 12 year olds flaming each other
Elvis! responded on 07 Dec 2007 at 4:06 am #
Nope, I hate whiners as much as the next mature gamer
Arkham responded on 07 Dec 2007 at 7:15 pm #
hey i hope you read this and i really hope your not austrailian if you are cos if you are you have no understanding of what an aussie battler is croc dundee was not a great aussie battler, he was just some bone head that has givin a bad image to the rest of the wolrd to what australia and australians are like. i real aussie battler is someone like Bernie Banton. this man is the embodyment of an aussie battler and if you are australian and you don’t know who he is you need to be shot. if you don’t know who he is look him up. he literally die fighting not for him self but for thousands of others. he died last week.
madlep responded on 07 Dec 2007 at 8:40 pm #
I’m a New Zealander. I just live in Australia.
I know who Bernie Banton is. He seemed like a decent enough guy. The way James Hardie Industries Ltd acted over the whole asbestos diseases compensation scam was just criminal. I don’t quite get what that has to do with a Team Fortress 2 blog though…
The term “Aussie Battler” has been so beaten about by tabloid media and vote grabbing politicians that it has become nothing more than a cliche now - which is why I referenced it tongue in cheek.
Strandiam responded on 08 Dec 2007 at 6:19 pm #
Great post. I’ve quit playing 2fort completely because of this problem. Every damn game there is usually about 3 snipers and even 1 soldier who thinks he is a sniper per team doing nothing other than sniping each other.
There is no way to defend this strategically, but plenty of people are obviously trying. People that play sniper a lot tend to be people who ONLY play sniper, in this game or others, and naturally they will defend to death their worth.
And to the people trying the idiotic “why do you care?” defense…We care because it IS in our game and IS affecting it. If we are playing a 12v12 game and 4 people per team are completely useless, then that makes it significantly more difficult (or easier if you have some good teamwork) to win the game. Most of the non-coordintated 2fort games end with no winner and a map switch. With so many people tied up with crap that is barely affecting the game, it becomes hard for the few people trying to win to score. And it is not because they are being sniped as anyone who has experience will be taking the sewers.
madlep responded on 08 Dec 2007 at 6:57 pm #
Amen Strandiam. Nice rant.
Anonymous responded on 11 Dec 2007 at 12:19 am #
What do you mean hard to defend?
Here’s a 5 step process for you.
1. Spawn as demoman
2. Go through the sewers
3. Go out the enemy’s front door
4. Lob stickies into each battlement
5. Detonate them.
Wow! That was hard.
If you’re really facing a lot of CS awp whores then they’re typically not smart enough to move. Go switch to spy, or demo, or hell even soldier, and rack up some free kills.
Ninjahedge responded on 13 Dec 2007 at 5:39 am #
I had to post here after being shown this Blog/thread.
I agree, the WCS is pretty much useless. Their playstyle is lacking any kind of dynamic edge to it and it makes it very hard to win on games like 2Fort when you have too many guys concentrating on that one small passage rather than teaming up to push across or defending the actual intelligence.
Snipers have always fared better when they have been on the first floor, or in the sewers (a long strait shot is a sure-fire formula for success!). Agreed that it is sometimes needed to peek up in the sniper nooks to keep people on their toes, but these guys are just bait.
You need to keep a guy, or turret, or something up there just to prevent someone running up and batting them upside the head on their blind side. And don’t even get me started about spies! 1 spy = 3 dead WCS or more!
I think the important thing to keep in mind is that any player is usefull, but when you restrict yourselves as these people do, you are not helping as much as you think, or as much as you CAN if you play it a bit differently.
Heh, just find the map Respect if you want to get really annoyed about WCS’s, thing is with that map, it can really make a difference!!!!
Lee responded on 13 Dec 2007 at 9:20 am #
snipers arent all that crappy, i do agree with you on some parts though…because i hate sniping noobs who dont necessarily know what they are doing…im pretty experienced on what snipers do, and im an excellent sniper on SOCOM U.S. NAVY SEALS
to me….its pointless to just go to the same spot every time you die, or just go there to try to get the other sniper. The most logical thing for the other sniper to do is look in that same spot, and also look for a barrel of a rifle sticking out of a window or something like that
1hrSleep responded on 13 Dec 2007 at 10:53 am #
*Cough* Sniper wars are a result of snipers trying to counter each other. Without an opposing counter, the sniper is free to snipe… YOU.
Come by the -Q- 2Fort server. You might see a sniper or two on one team effectively shut down the other team’s travel.
Anonymous responded on 18 Dec 2007 at 3:33 am #
@Ninjahedge
This only applies if they suck. If the sniper can aim then he’s locking down four separate travel routes for the enemy, and limiting them down to one. The sewers. I dunno about you, but I’d rather have a pair of snipers and know which way the enemy is going to come from, than not having a clue which way they’re likely to advance from and an extra 2 soldiers.
If the sniper sucks, that has nothing to do with staying in the battlements, that has to do with the sniper being horrible, and him switching to another class is not likely to improve anything.
Darren Coleman responded on 20 Dec 2007 at 12:59 am #
The great irony of course is that if - God forbid - an enemy picks up the intel the snipers generally do… nothing. I haven’t yet been in a game where the snipers on my team have actually gone after, much less sniped the guy running across the bridge or the roof with our intel.
You’ve nailed snipers really, particularly on 2fort. I pretty much write off their contribution to the team for the rest of the round.
Anonymous responded on 20 Dec 2007 at 7:03 am #
@Darren Coleman
Dunno where you play, but I’ve stopped dozens of scout rushes by popping them on the bridge. I’ve also seen many snipers run into the base from the battlements when it’s picked up, and then camp the two exits (as both are nice long shots coming from a small opening) and just pick off the guy before he leaves the base.
/shrug, maybe I just have better luck than you when it comes to player quality
Shrake12 responded on 20 Jan 2008 at 5:13 am #
I won’t try to shrug off blame or justify myself: I am a Weighted Companion Sniper. I hide, I shoot, I hide again. Only after reading this blog do I realize how insignificant my headshot count was in comparison to forsaking my current team. Now, I use the sewers and the first floor, exposing myself, but actually shooting at some one other than the other WCS across the bridge.
I also was able to enact my worst fear on the other WCS in the other base for them: I changed to a pyro and flamed. Flamed like there was no tomorrow.
Jewbat responded on 30 Jan 2008 at 9:09 am #
Wow. Some of the comments are really hilarious.
Counter-Sniper duels are ONLY good if you can kill them QUICKLY and then move onto helping your team. Otherwise, stop doing it. You don’t help in recon because most of the time you’re in your scope and have very little periphial vision.
Besides, all it takes is a demoman, a solider, or a spy to scare of the snipers. I know of good snipers and bad snipers. The good ones who are constantly on the move. You’ll see them in the battlements, sure. But you’ll also see them in the enemy’s intelligence room, in their front door, or even in the water picking off people as they come across the bridge!
Turning Spy, and backstabbing them a few times puts the fear back into the Sniper and stops them from trying to sit there for 20 minutes waiting for that lone Heavy to cross the bridge and allows him to take his 5 potshots.
In other words, a Sniper duel only works if one Sniper can finish of the other within the first 30 seconds of the battle. Otherwise, it’s wasted breath, time and ammunition. You should go back to your respawn, change into another class (Maybe Spy or Scout) and rush the Sniper. Once he’s down, take the intelligence and you win a point, rather than a hole behind the enemy sniper.
Minzerta2010 responded on 08 Feb 2008 at 10:27 am #
Haha, I love pissing off WC Snipers on my team. I usually play as a spy (I like to think I’m a pretty damn good one), and snipers are insainely vulnurable against spies. While two snipers are going at it in 2Fort, I quickly run up behind an enemy sniper and stab them in the back (if there isn’t an active sentry or other player around). Then I do a taunt. Not only have I killed the enemy WCS, but i’ve efectively stolen some the kill of a WCS on my team. In 2Fort, they’re definetly the easiest class to pick off (if they’re not skilled).
madlep responded on 08 Feb 2008 at 10:38 am #
Good work Minzerta2010
Anonymous responded on 18 Feb 2008 at 11:46 pm #
@Minzerta
Heheh, yeah I did that yesterday. It was enjoyable, my team’s WCS just starting laughing and wondering wtf happened.
Anonymous responded on 20 Feb 2008 at 4:46 pm #
The other option is to grief them.us
Pulviriza responded on 04 May 2008 at 5:24 pm #
Hang on, twangy accent? I don’t have anything like that.